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Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy" Isaac Send a noteboard - 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM
Galaxy meaning Milky Way and all :)

This thread is the only reason I now know of the latter, and I am a little annoyed Browning used the same term for a wholly different weapon than that they made half a century ago. Apparently, there is a redundantly named "Browning BAR," referred to as such because of its auto-LOADING feature. As you can see from the below link to Brownings site, it looks nothing like the old BAR, which stands to reason since it has none of the same parts. It is ONLY semi-auto; again, I have seen nothing to suggest it can be converted to full auto, and instead seen several categorical statements it CANNOT, by any means.


That is probably true then, from a practical standpoint. Of course anything can be made full auto with enough modification even if all that's left over is the barrel of the original parts. Some manufacturers have been jumping through hoops to make weapons it can't be done to, or is very hard to, and I'll use that as anecdotal evidence of why its not that hard in their eyes with most guns.

I'm going to have to skip around a bit, so apoligies if I skip anytihng major here.

That also stands to reason though, because it was designed as a civilian hunting rifle, never at any time intended for fully automatic fire. I am no gunsmith but, again, it is only logical a fully automatic weapon converted to semi-automatic could easily be converted BACK to fully automatic through removing/replacing/modifying some parts. I would expect it to be more difficult to accomplish that goal with one that was always semi-automatic and never fully automatic.


The big conceptual difference - more than mechanical because there are multiple mechanical means to achieve effectively parallel goals - is that a semi will do everything after a shot to get the next bullet ready but won't fire it until you pull the trigger again, and an auto will fire it if you have the trigger pulled. In some weapons (I won't say most, not sure) this amounts to adding in an extra bit, certainly with anything open bolt the procedure is more complex for semi than auto, but fundamentally -barring some bizarre rifle designs - determination of auto and semi is entirely in the trigger mechanism.

How much US/NATO military issue was designed as fully automatic from the outset and merely retooled as semi-auto in its commercial form (where such forms exist)? I have heard it said that "what can be done can be undone."


The M16 was full auto and a king of jamming, so it got the forward assist built in on to the M16A1 which was full auto, the A2 had single and burst, ditto the A4 (my personal fav weapon) and the A3 was full auto. There aren't as many of these kicking around as AKs and its harder to usefully modify because its a serious precision weapon in terms of the parts, hard to knock up replacements. Every last one of them is easily modded to full auto, A2 and A4, and I mean easily. Here a piece, often called a disconnector, is actually responsible for turning the 'full auto' off after a certain number of shots (not listed on the parts but its in the schematic, not for sale obviously) and thus making it burst. In some cases - and here's where the file comes in, you'll have something that looks like a quarter sized disk with, say, 3 grooves in it, and on 3 round burst it catches in each groove and fires again, stick in a fourth groove and its 4-round burst, stick in 5, etc, do it symetrically around the whole length (depending on the bit) and now it's full auto. In others, you could simply remove the thing entirely and render it full auto or replace it with one with no grooves, just a flat disc. It's all about the specific mechanics. Theoretically any semi can be rendered full auto simply by arranging a mechanism that pulls the trigger as soon as it reset, like some home-made spring driven widget you place over a trigger, it would be slower but not really appreciably so compared to human reaction speed. So it can essentially always be done. With the AR-15 though its unavoidable because it is a M16 and the M16 is essentially a full auto weapon retrofitted to semiautomatic.

So, yeah, if someone turns their AR-15 back into an M-16 it will be fully automatic, but it takes more than filing a firing pin, which will not do the job, and that does not apply to weapons never designed for fully automatic fire.


I'm kinda curious why you'd even be filing the firing pin in the first place.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them? - 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM 1538 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer - 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM 991 Views
You're actually not right on that one - 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM 920 Views
That wasn't the point I was making - 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM 865 Views
You should probably clarify it then - 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM 1022 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post. - 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM 1177 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM* - 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM 529 Views
I think - 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM 852 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle' - 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM 860 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith - 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM 906 Views
I thought I was being perfectly clear. - 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM 870 Views
Re: I thought I was being perfectly clear. - 21/12/2012 11:25:04 PM 921 Views
Oh I wasn't commenting on the standard of people here - 21/12/2012 11:29:36 PM 842 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se - 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM 831 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense - 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM 890 Views
He is right about Australia - 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM 868 Views
No kidding - 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM 855 Views
If you knew all that - 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM 880 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant. - 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM 863 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets. - 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM 903 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns? - 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM 1068 Views
Some semi-autos are easily modified for full auto fire, making the distinction one w/o a difference. - 21/12/2012 10:53:59 PM 942 Views
Correction: virtually all semi-automatics are easily convertable - 21/12/2012 11:23:35 PM 880 Views
How many of the people I was complaining about would know that? - 22/12/2012 12:48:59 AM 869 Views
Some, possibly? I am ever the optimist - 22/12/2012 12:58:36 AM 834 Views
I have seen nothing on turning a semi-auto BAR into a fully automatic one. - 22/12/2012 01:11:12 AM 795 Views
What's a BAR? In any event, link a diagram and I'll let you know - 22/12/2012 01:26:31 AM 792 Views
Confusingly, there are two: The BAR you and I think of, and the "Browning BAR," a current semi-auto - 22/12/2012 01:07:30 PM 909 Views
Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy" - 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM 1069 Views
It only bothers me when people who know better speak of "the Glieseian solar system." - 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM 951 Views
Both terms are pretty stuck now - 26/12/2012 10:48:38 PM 1017 Views
You realize that encourages rather than discourages my opposition to the usage, right? - 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM 794 Views
Well I can't say it surprises - 27/12/2012 04:29:06 AM 733 Views
No one expects the Online Inquisition! - 27/12/2012 05:20:44 PM 744 Views
I've enjoyed most reboots - 28/12/2012 01:06:05 AM 688 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands. - 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM 795 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands. - 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM 853 Views
umm... - 22/12/2012 12:41:31 PM 767 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout - 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM 931 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed - 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM 985 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM* - 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM 560 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification. - 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM 806 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM* - 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM 495 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution. - 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM 914 Views
Yes you are. - 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM 715 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar. - 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM 877 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to - 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM 940 Views
You are wrong. - 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM 890 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it. - 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM 812 Views
We're also averse to being wrong. - 22/12/2012 02:53:49 PM 891 Views
So you say... - 22/12/2012 03:32:16 PM 812 Views
guns r stpid *NM* - 23/12/2012 12:39:30 AM 581 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns - 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM 908 Views
She was asleep with him in the house. - 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM 881 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one... - 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM 821 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd. - 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM 796 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time... - 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM 783 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers. - 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM 797 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM* - 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM 500 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...." - 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM 790 Views
*see previous grammar lesson* *NM* - 28/12/2012 10:31:43 PM 484 Views
The instant it becomes relevant, I shall. - 28/12/2012 11:45:01 PM 984 Views
Your point being? - 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM 780 Views
Facts are irrelevant when FUD is the order of the day. - 24/12/2012 04:34:18 PM 787 Views
It irritates me too. *NM* - 01/01/2013 01:55:05 PM 503 Views

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