seriously, the answer to the murder of 20 children is to put even yet still more guns everywhere? and to place armed guards at every school? ask columbine how well that worked out for them. or Fort Hood for that matter. or the recent NYPD incident in which 9 bystanders were injured by police opening fire on a gunman. obviously, having more guns in armed guards' hands makes us safer and protects us from insanity
as i and others here have said: countries like australia and canada have enacted stricter laws and not had repeated mass shootings the way the US continues to have. consider that over 100 people have been killed by guns *SINCE* the sandy hook school massacre, and that was only one week ago! with an average of 30,000 deaths per year related to guns, 100 deaths in one week is a reprieve from the status quo. at some point this must stop!
also, apparently it's violence in video games and movies that's still to blame. it can't *possibly* the readily accessible weaponry and a paranoid vision of everyone as a possible enemy combatant lurking around every corner in every single public place (and some private ones too i'm sure). if we're lucky, this will be the moment the NRA is never taken seriously ever again. unfortunately, they continue to show that they are so insane they would probably just blame video games and hollywood on their lack of influence if that were the case....
N.R.A. Envisions ‘a Good Guy With a Gun’ in Every School
By ERIC LICHTBLAU and MOTOKO RICH
WASHINGTON — After a weeklong silence, the National Rifle Association announced Friday that it wants to arm security officers at every school in the country. It pointed the finger at violent video games, the news media and lax law enforcement — not guns — as culprits in the recent rash of mass shootings.
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” Wayne LaPierre, the N.R.A. vice president, said at a media event that was interrupted by protesters. One held up a banner saying, “N.R.A. Killing Our Kids.”
The N.R.A.’s plan for countering school shootings, coming a week after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., was met with widespread derision from school administrators, law enforcement officials and politicians, with some critics calling it “delusional” and “paranoid.” Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, a Republican, said arming schools would not make them safer.
Even conservative politicians who had voiced support this week for arming more school officers did not rush to embrace the N.R.A.’s plan.
Their reluctance was an indication of just how toxic the gun debate has become after the Connecticut shootings, as gun control advocates push for tougher restrictions.
Nationwide, at least 23,000 schools — about one-third of all public schools — already had armed security on staff as of the most recent data, for the 2009-10 school year, and a number of states and districts that do not use them have begun discussing the idea in recent days.
Even so, the N. R. A’s focus on armed guards as its prime solution to school shootings — and the group’s offer to help develop and carry out such a program nationwide — rankled a number of lawmakers on Capitol Hill.
“Anyone who thought the N.R.A. was going to come out today and make a common-sense statement about meaningful reform and safety was kidding themselves,” said Representative Mike Quigley, an Illinois Democrat, who has called for new restrictions on assault rifles.
Mr. LaPierre struck a defiant tone on Friday, making clear that his group was not eager to reach a conciliation. With the N.R.A. not making any statements after last week’s shootings, both supporters and opponents of greater gun control had been looking to its announcement Friday as a sign of how the nation’s most influential gun lobby group would respond and whether it would pledge to work with President Obama and Congress in developing new gun control measures.
Mr. LaPierre offered no support for any of the proposals made in the last week, like banning assault rifles or limiting high-capacity ammunition, and N.R.A. leaders declined to answer questions. As reporters shouted out to Mr. LaPierre and David Keene, the group’s president, asking whether they planned to work with Mr. Obama, the men walked off stage without answering.
Mr. LaPierre seemed to anticipate the negative reaction in an address that was often angry and combative.
“Now I can imagine the headlines — the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow,” he told more than 150 journalists at a downtown hotel several blocks from the White House.
“More guns, you’ll claim, are the N.R.A.’s answer to everything,” he said. “Your implication will be that guns are evil and have no place in society, much less in our schools. But since when did the gun automatically become a bad word?”
Mr. LaPierre said his organization would finance and develop a program called the National Model School Shield Program, to work with schools to arm and train school guards, including retired police officers and volunteers. The gun rights group named Asa Hutchinson, a former Republican congressman from Arkansas and administrator of the Drug Enforcement Agency, to lead a task force to develop the program.
Mr. LaPierre also said that before Congress moved to pass any new gun restrictions, it should “act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation” by the time students return from winter break in January.
The idea of arming school security officers is not altogether new. Districts in cities including Albuquerque, Baltimore, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami and St. Louis have armed officers in schools, either through relationships with local police departments or by training and recruiting their own staff members.
A federal program dating back to the Clinton administration also uses armed police officers in school districts to bolster security, and Mr. LaPierre himself talked about beefing up the number of armed officers on campuses after the deadly shootings in 2007 at Virginia Tech.
But what the N.R.A. proposed would expand the use of armed officers nationwide and make greater use of not just police officers, but armed volunteers — including retired police officers and reservists — to patrol school grounds. The organization offered no estimates of the cost.
Mr. LaPierre said that if armed security officers had been used at the Newtown school, “26 innocent lives might have been spared that day.”
The N.R.A. news conference was an unusual Washington event both in tone and substance, as Mr. LaPierre avoided the hedged, carefully calibrated language that political figures usually prefer, and instead let loose with a torrid attack on the N.R.A.’s accusers.
He blasted what he called “the political class here in Washington” for pursuing new gun control measures while failing, in his view, to adequately prosecute violations of existing gun laws, finance law enforcement programs or develop a national registry of mentally ill people who might prove to be “the next Adam Lanza,” the gunman in Newtown.
Mr. LaPierre also complained that the news media had unfairly “demonized gun owners.” And he called the makers of violent video games “a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and sows violence against its own people,” as he showed a video of an online cartoon game called “Kindergarten Killer.”
While some superintendents and parents interviewed after the N.R.A.’s briefing said they might support an increased police presence on school campuses as part of a broader safety strategy, many educators, politicians, and crime experts described it as foolhardy and potentially dangerous. Law enforcement officials said putting armed officers in the nation’s 99,000 schools was unrealistic because of the enormous cost and manpower needed.
At a news conference Friday, Senator Dianne Feinstein, the California Democrat who is leading an effort to reinstitute a ban on assault rifles, read from a police report on the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado, which detailed an armed officer’s unsuccessful attempts to disarm one of the gunmen. “There were two armed law enforcement officers at that campus, and you see what happened — 15 dead,” Ms. Feinstein said.
Ernest Logan, president of the Council of School Supervisors and Administrators, called the N.R.A.’s plan “unbelievable and cynical.”
He said placing armed guards within schools would “expose our children to far greater risk from gun violence than the very small risk they now face.”Officials in some districts that use armed security officers stressed that it was only part of a broader strategy aimed at reducing the risk of violence.
But Ben Kiser, superintendent of schools in Gloucester County, Va., where the district already has four police officers assigned to patrol schools, said it was just as important to provide mental health services to help struggling children and families.
“What I’m afraid of,” said Mr. Kiser, who is also president of the Virginia Association of School Superintendents, “is that we’re often quick to find that one perceived panacea and that’s where we spend our focus.”
In Newtown, Conn., the N.R.A.’s call for arming school guards generated considerable debate among parents and residents on Friday — much of it negative. Suzy DeYoung, a parenting coach who has one child in the local school system, said she thought many parents in town and around the country would object to bringing more guns onto school campuses.
“I think people are smarter than that,” she said.
Reporting was contributed by John H. Cushman Jr. and Jeremy W. Peters in Washington, and Serge F. Kovaleski and Richard Pérez-Peña in New York.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/22/us/nra-calls-for-armed-guards-at-schools.html
as i and others here have said: countries like australia and canada have enacted stricter laws and not had repeated mass shootings the way the US continues to have. consider that over 100 people have been killed by guns *SINCE* the sandy hook school massacre, and that was only one week ago! with an average of 30,000 deaths per year related to guns, 100 deaths in one week is a reprieve from the status quo. at some point this must stop!also, apparently it's violence in video games and movies that's still to blame. it can't *possibly* the readily accessible weaponry and a paranoid vision of everyone as a possible enemy combatant lurking around every corner in every single public place (and some private ones too i'm sure). if we're lucky, this will be the moment the NRA is never taken seriously ever again. unfortunately, they continue to show that they are so insane they would probably just blame video games and hollywood on their lack of influence if that were the case....
N.R.A. Envisions ‘a Good Guy With a Gun’ in Every School
By ERIC LICHTBLAU and MOTOKO RICH
WASHINGTON — After a weeklong silence, the National Rifle Association announced Friday that it wants to arm security officers at every school in the country. It pointed the finger at violent video games, the news media and lax law enforcement — not guns — as culprits in the recent rash of mass shootings.
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” Wayne LaPierre, the N.R.A. vice president, said at a media event that was interrupted by protesters. One held up a banner saying, “N.R.A. Killing Our Kids.”
The N.R.A.’s plan for countering school shootings, coming a week after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., was met with widespread derision from school administrators, law enforcement officials and politicians, with some critics calling it “delusional” and “paranoid.” Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, a Republican, said arming schools would not make them safer.
Even conservative politicians who had voiced support this week for arming more school officers did not rush to embrace the N.R.A.’s plan.
Their reluctance was an indication of just how toxic the gun debate has become after the Connecticut shootings, as gun control advocates push for tougher restrictions.
Nationwide, at least 23,000 schools — about one-third of all public schools — already had armed security on staff as of the most recent data, for the 2009-10 school year, and a number of states and districts that do not use them have begun discussing the idea in recent days.
Even so, the N. R. A’s focus on armed guards as its prime solution to school shootings — and the group’s offer to help develop and carry out such a program nationwide — rankled a number of lawmakers on Capitol Hill.
“Anyone who thought the N.R.A. was going to come out today and make a common-sense statement about meaningful reform and safety was kidding themselves,” said Representative Mike Quigley, an Illinois Democrat, who has called for new restrictions on assault rifles.
Mr. LaPierre struck a defiant tone on Friday, making clear that his group was not eager to reach a conciliation. With the N.R.A. not making any statements after last week’s shootings, both supporters and opponents of greater gun control had been looking to its announcement Friday as a sign of how the nation’s most influential gun lobby group would respond and whether it would pledge to work with President Obama and Congress in developing new gun control measures.
Mr. LaPierre offered no support for any of the proposals made in the last week, like banning assault rifles or limiting high-capacity ammunition, and N.R.A. leaders declined to answer questions. As reporters shouted out to Mr. LaPierre and David Keene, the group’s president, asking whether they planned to work with Mr. Obama, the men walked off stage without answering.
Mr. LaPierre seemed to anticipate the negative reaction in an address that was often angry and combative.
“Now I can imagine the headlines — the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow,” he told more than 150 journalists at a downtown hotel several blocks from the White House.
“More guns, you’ll claim, are the N.R.A.’s answer to everything,” he said. “Your implication will be that guns are evil and have no place in society, much less in our schools. But since when did the gun automatically become a bad word?”
Mr. LaPierre said his organization would finance and develop a program called the National Model School Shield Program, to work with schools to arm and train school guards, including retired police officers and volunteers. The gun rights group named Asa Hutchinson, a former Republican congressman from Arkansas and administrator of the Drug Enforcement Agency, to lead a task force to develop the program.
Mr. LaPierre also said that before Congress moved to pass any new gun restrictions, it should “act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation” by the time students return from winter break in January.
The idea of arming school security officers is not altogether new. Districts in cities including Albuquerque, Baltimore, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami and St. Louis have armed officers in schools, either through relationships with local police departments or by training and recruiting their own staff members.
A federal program dating back to the Clinton administration also uses armed police officers in school districts to bolster security, and Mr. LaPierre himself talked about beefing up the number of armed officers on campuses after the deadly shootings in 2007 at Virginia Tech.
But what the N.R.A. proposed would expand the use of armed officers nationwide and make greater use of not just police officers, but armed volunteers — including retired police officers and reservists — to patrol school grounds. The organization offered no estimates of the cost.
Mr. LaPierre said that if armed security officers had been used at the Newtown school, “26 innocent lives might have been spared that day.”
The N.R.A. news conference was an unusual Washington event both in tone and substance, as Mr. LaPierre avoided the hedged, carefully calibrated language that political figures usually prefer, and instead let loose with a torrid attack on the N.R.A.’s accusers.
He blasted what he called “the political class here in Washington” for pursuing new gun control measures while failing, in his view, to adequately prosecute violations of existing gun laws, finance law enforcement programs or develop a national registry of mentally ill people who might prove to be “the next Adam Lanza,” the gunman in Newtown.
Mr. LaPierre also complained that the news media had unfairly “demonized gun owners.” And he called the makers of violent video games “a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and sows violence against its own people,” as he showed a video of an online cartoon game called “Kindergarten Killer.”
While some superintendents and parents interviewed after the N.R.A.’s briefing said they might support an increased police presence on school campuses as part of a broader safety strategy, many educators, politicians, and crime experts described it as foolhardy and potentially dangerous. Law enforcement officials said putting armed officers in the nation’s 99,000 schools was unrealistic because of the enormous cost and manpower needed.
At a news conference Friday, Senator Dianne Feinstein, the California Democrat who is leading an effort to reinstitute a ban on assault rifles, read from a police report on the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado, which detailed an armed officer’s unsuccessful attempts to disarm one of the gunmen. “There were two armed law enforcement officers at that campus, and you see what happened — 15 dead,” Ms. Feinstein said.
Ernest Logan, president of the Council of School Supervisors and Administrators, called the N.R.A.’s plan “unbelievable and cynical.”
He said placing armed guards within schools would “expose our children to far greater risk from gun violence than the very small risk they now face.”Officials in some districts that use armed security officers stressed that it was only part of a broader strategy aimed at reducing the risk of violence.
But Ben Kiser, superintendent of schools in Gloucester County, Va., where the district already has four police officers assigned to patrol schools, said it was just as important to provide mental health services to help struggling children and families.
“What I’m afraid of,” said Mr. Kiser, who is also president of the Virginia Association of School Superintendents, “is that we’re often quick to find that one perceived panacea and that’s where we spend our focus.”
In Newtown, Conn., the N.R.A.’s call for arming school guards generated considerable debate among parents and residents on Friday — much of it negative. Suzy DeYoung, a parenting coach who has one child in the local school system, said she thought many parents in town and around the country would object to bringing more guns onto school campuses.
“I think people are smarter than that,” she said.
Reporting was contributed by John H. Cushman Jr. and Jeremy W. Peters in Washington, and Serge F. Kovaleski and Richard Pérez-Peña in New York.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/22/us/nra-calls-for-armed-guards-at-schools.html
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics
- 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM
1374 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response.
- 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM
899 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head
- 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM
908 Views
If the schools that the children of our elected representatives attend are gaurded, so should mine.
- 26/12/2012 03:00:35 PM
690 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea
- 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM
730 Views
The effectiveness issue aside
- 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM
779 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside
- 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM
874 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably
- 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM
833 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification.
- 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM
802 Views
If it's shown to work
- 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM
880 Views
Of the many school shootings in recent years, I am aware of none where armed cops were present.
- 23/12/2012 12:47:32 AM
804 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon...
- 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM
759 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.)
- 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM
909 Views
you should try harder
- 23/12/2012 01:15:34 AM
944 Views
"a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket" is not stationed there.
- 23/12/2012 01:34:50 AM
869 Views
he still didn't stop the shooting, whether he was there before or after it started
- 23/12/2012 01:49:24 AM
884 Views
No kidding; how could he stop the shooting before it started if he was not there?
- 23/12/2012 02:16:59 AM
731 Views
A fuller account of Gardner
- 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM
975 Views
Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM
747 Views
Re: Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM
741 Views
Inexplicably, Ft. Hood was a gun free zone (guess no one told the shooter.)
- 26/12/2012 06:12:42 PM
758 Views
Re: Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 04:21:27 PM
746 Views
Gardner:If you’re going to put a police officer in a school, make sure his focus stays on the school
- 26/12/2012 06:40:41 PM
798 Views
The children are what matter, not the school. Surely this isn't something you disagree on?
- 29/12/2012 02:15:12 PM
824 Views
As usual Moondog, you are missing a BUNCH of facts on this one (links inside)
- 26/12/2012 07:51:29 PM
870 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US
- 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM
830 Views
What is public safety worth to you?
- 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM
746 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it.
- 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM
681 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings.
- 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM
679 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect
- 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM
828 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence.
- 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM
872 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject
- 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM
803 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead.
- 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM
732 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country
- 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM
838 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic
- 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM
731 Views
Care to prove that negative? The burden to do so is on you as the person who made the assertion.
- 26/12/2012 06:47:07 PM
723 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous.
- 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM
830 Views
Re: the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics
- 22/12/2012 06:36:32 PM
991 Views
I believe it is fairly common in junior and high schools today, but not elementary schools.
- 22/12/2012 07:12:32 PM
748 Views
This entire post is completely irrelevant.
- 22/12/2012 07:27:45 PM
864 Views
Those who want univeral prohibition/access are equally fringe minorities.
- 22/12/2012 08:18:00 PM
803 Views
there is no Left or Right on this issue, there is only Sane and Insane
- 23/12/2012 12:59:08 AM
837 Views
also: it's insulting to tell parents their kids would be alive if only more guns were around
- 23/12/2012 01:30:53 AM
770 Views
People die from all sort of causes
- 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM
803 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not?
- 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM
941 Views
Do bombs require certification?
- 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM
1046 Views
No, they are pretty much illegal for the general public under all conditions.
- 22/12/2012 09:35:35 PM
711 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks
- 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM
821 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances.
- 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM
777 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected
- 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM
797 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something..
- 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM
721 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention
- 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM
760 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference
- 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM
705 Views
Dicks and stones
- 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM
943 Views
cars and guns kill roughly the same number of people every year -- around 30,000 give or take
- 23/12/2012 01:02:44 AM
765 Views
But over half of gun deaths are suicide.....so cars are much more dangerous to society. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 05:35:45 AM
335 Views
Every year is iffy there, it dropped off the last two, was 40k-50k plus for cars since 1962
- 23/12/2012 11:55:50 AM
720 Views
except that cars are legislated to be safer every year, guns aren't.
- 23/12/2012 03:01:36 PM
784 Views
Guns are for killing, cars are for transport, cars aren't any safer now against use for homicide
- 23/12/2012 08:22:13 PM
734 Views
but if we are trying to minimize the number of deaths, then more MUST be done for gun laws
- 24/12/2012 03:33:31 AM
708 Views
More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 24/12/2012 04:27:04 AM
814 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 25/12/2012 04:49:54 PM
772 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 25/12/2012 08:41:53 PM
758 Views
Here is some interesting data.....knives are as dangerous as "non-handguns"
- 23/12/2012 05:45:08 AM
830 Views
I hope you don't mind me taking this opportunity to plug my new book, "How to Cook with Guns" *NM*
- 23/12/2012 03:04:06 PM
429 Views
there was a school mass stabbing in china the same day as sandy hook
- 23/12/2012 03:18:00 PM
766 Views
I am equally happy that the criminal was incompetant, but that does not diminish their lethality
- 27/12/2012 10:45:33 PM
833 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns.
- 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM
746 Views
IMO it is about the media attention focuised on the perpetrator. Their name becomes history. *NM*
- 27/12/2012 10:47:15 PM
387 Views
