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i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through moondog Send a noteboard - 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM
I know lots of people who wish they weren't in unions, and lots of people who were happy to be in right to work states, like my mother, who refused to join the teachers' union. Let people make up their own minds, because you know what? If a union is really a benefit, they won't have to force people to join and they won't have to mandatorily remove dues from peoples' paychecks.


yeah, that's the same argument as "if you don't have anything to hide, you won't care if we invade your privacy". protections exist for a reason, taking those protections away does not mean you are still secure from an abuse of power. i'm not going to say that all people should belong to a union no matter their industry because some industries don't lend themselves well to unionization. but where those unions exist, they exist for a reason, and when they disappear people will notice and take action.

as far as i can see, this has always resulted in a bad situation for workers. in an age where corporate profits are at an all time high vs. GDP but yet wages are well behind, it's hard for me to believe that unions aren't still needed in this day and age.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State! Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM 1434 Views
It's great that they were able to do it. Tom - 12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM 763 Views
I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM 710 Views
Isn't this a symptom of evolution? Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM 750 Views
we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it..... moondog - 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM 745 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM 690 Views
Dude, that's insane. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 742 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing" beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM 634 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM 690 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less moondog - 12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM 786 Views
The good and the bad of unions: Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:46 PM 863 Views
Double post. Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:50 PM 942 Views
Ok...employeers demanding people to do more for less. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:56:32 PM 689 Views
the point was that the union did not strike, the workers were prevented from working by management moondog - 13/12/2012 11:25:07 PM 714 Views
Yes, and if there was not a union... beetnemesis - 13/12/2012 04:56:57 AM 695 Views
What are the downsides of Unions? *NM* Narg - 12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM 428 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions? Cannoli - 13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM 776 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only moondog - 14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM 665 Views
Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:33:13 AM 887 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. Narg - 14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM 787 Views
I'll tell you what my perceptions are.... Jeordam - 14/12/2012 09:30:33 PM 808 Views
one point i need to address here: moondog - 14/12/2012 10:09:24 PM 631 Views
Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. moondog - 14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM 583 Views
Sorry, didn't realize this was addressed to me. Sure, ok: beetnemesis - 15/12/2012 05:14:57 AM 838 Views
it's great? moondog - 12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM 718 Views
Pissed off people.... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM 636 Views
again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan? moondog - 12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM 760 Views
This used to be the case, but no longer. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:34:01 PM 615 Views
but that's my point exactly moondog - 12/12/2012 06:40:20 PM 683 Views
Which industry are you refering to? *NM* Isaac - 12/12/2012 06:23:55 PM 358 Views
As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM 658 Views
+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM 649 Views
unions still aren't the problem in michigan, it's reliance on a single industry as the main employer moondog - 12/12/2012 06:37:44 PM 630 Views
Michigan is one of the fastest growing areas for the tech industry. Michigan is starting to expand. everynametaken - 19/12/2012 03:28:18 AM 811 Views
So let me get this straight. Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM 718 Views
Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing! Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM 670 Views
no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD moondog - 13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM 703 Views
Just to play devil's advocate... Tom - 13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM 672 Views
That would be an interesting study... Jeordam - 13/12/2012 09:51:21 PM 651 Views
Re: Just to play devil's advocate... moondog - 13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM 606 Views
I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM 700 Views
Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. moondog - 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM 673 Views
How is that wrong? Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM 633 Views
it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions moondog - 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM 658 Views
Your argument is completely fallacious. Tom - 14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM 649 Views
A brilliant argument... Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM 725 Views
You are assuming that business owners do not value "on the job" experience Orange - 14/12/2012 09:03:35 AM 768 Views
Your hypothetical doesn't stand up in the real world, however. Tom - 14/12/2012 02:46:23 PM 706 Views
the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems moondog - 14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM 645 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics Tom - 14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM 578 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through moondog - 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM 657 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits. Tom - 14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM 633 Views
i'll take you one further.... moondog - 14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM 589 Views
I have suggested that before Tom - 15/12/2012 02:31:07 PM 633 Views
so you did. sorry about that! moondog - 15/12/2012 03:59:16 PM 610 Views
So to work with your thoughts (regarding the Romans) Jeordam - 14/12/2012 06:07:06 PM 643 Views
funny thing about that..... moondog - 14/12/2012 07:25:50 PM 579 Views
And so what if they are all shit jobs with substandard pay! Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:08:41 AM 662 Views
What do you want me to say? Jeordam - 14/12/2012 05:58:45 PM 769 Views
And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM* Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM 343 Views
The unions already destroyed the middle class..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:46:56 PM 687 Views
Do you really not understand why unions existed in the first place? Dannymac - 14/12/2012 06:55:27 AM 610 Views
Why they first existed is not in issue. It is if they STILL serve a useful or detrimental purpose. HyogaRott - 14/12/2012 03:00:48 PM 671 Views
Yeah, moron! What is wrong with you, that you do not blindly accept his underlying premise? Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:35:37 AM 994 Views
Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000. callandor1000 - 14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM 707 Views
This must be a trying time for you. Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM 658 Views
Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM 307 Views
HOW they are doing it..is bullshit Amyrlin - 13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM 807 Views
How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM 630 Views
You have the right to work, not the right to vote in an election as you see fit and keep your job. *NM* heartbreak - 15/12/2012 03:23:13 AM 394 Views
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