Your argument fails.
Fetus lives inside another conscious living person. Living people do not live inside another conscious living organism. Earth's atmosphere is not a conscious living organism.
A different question - what about the self-defense, stand your ground viewpoint? You have the right to evict a home invader, even if they would freeze to death or starve otherwise. You use deadly force to someone who threatens you with bodily harm.
And innocent - everyone is innocent. Are they not? I don't understand why that's important. The woman who died was innocent also. Pregnant women are innocent.
I understand and accept that you put the moral emphasis on the mother, I just don't agree with you.
Stand your ground does not apply if your invite someone into your home. The VAST majority of abortions are performed after voluntary sex. When you choose to have sex, you choose to risk pregnancy, that is how it works. Innocent of what? The child is not yet capable of independent performance of action, and thus can be nothing but innocent. Whereas the mother has had a lifetime to make bad (whatever moral evaluation you wish to apply) choices/actions. Again, check a dictionary.
It's odd the place a higher moral value on a creature incapable of reasoning or action, as if being unconscious were a virtue. It's the opposite - consciousness and reason are how we define humanity.
Next, I absolutely do no accept the risk of pregnancy when I have sex. I need to have sex for my physical and mental well being, to be happy and fulfilled in life, it is absolutely essential. It is against my religion to be celibate or pregnant.
Further, when I get into the car, I do not accept the risk of dying in an accident. And driving is much more of an option than having sex. When I eat, I do not accept the risk of getting e.coli. Especially in the way you seem to mean "accept the risk" - not be given a chance to mitigate or control the consequences. I do not relinquish control over my life because I had sex.i still have a right to choose how I live.
But back to the "innocent plant" viewpoint, I find it very curious. Do plants have higher value than humans because they are unable of independent action or thinking?
Furthermore, (giving you further cause to disagree with me) I don't believe that their should be a rape exemption. Why do we execute the baby, when we won't execute the rapist?
At the time that the rapist has a part of his body inside of mine, I am justified to use any method including deadly force, to defend the sanctity of my body, to protect it from unwelcome invasion.
An unwanted pregnancy is also an unwelcome invasion. And no, by having sex, I didn't open up my body to anything else that might come. If you use your credit card at a store, you do not give them permission to charge it again without your authorization, even though the risk is there. When I eat a sandwich which might have tapeworm eggs on it, even if i know there's a risk, I do not consent to carrying tapeworms in my body. And even though the tapeworm is innocent, I have a right to protect my body, before and after the invasion.
woman dies after doctors deny her a life-saving abortion
- 14/11/2012 06:58:31 PM
1584 Views
this is so terribly sad. keeping abortions legal is important. *NM*
- 14/11/2012 07:09:00 PM
382 Views
Well, I guess to expedite the process of argument and counter-argument, I'll post an article an
- 14/11/2012 07:28:01 PM
877 Views
you're right, i should have posted the actual article instead of an editorial. thanks!
- 14/11/2012 08:14:42 PM
986 Views
so terrible... i will never understand how this crap is considered "pro-life." *NM*
- 15/11/2012 01:15:56 AM
462 Views
Maybe this is more a testament to the quality of care in that hospital than an arguemnt for abortion *NM*
- 15/11/2012 01:49:00 PM
365 Views
Can you elaborate?
- 16/11/2012 04:07:48 PM
763 Views
Do you have access to her medical charts?
- 16/11/2012 08:44:45 PM
753 Views
The infection was from the fetus inside of her. That is not disputed.
- 16/11/2012 10:14:52 PM
693 Views
This wasn't pro-life, but more a case of anti-thinking
- 15/11/2012 06:28:55 PM
801 Views
but the pro-life (or anti-abortion) argument was the reason they gave for not allowing an abortion
- 15/11/2012 10:00:14 PM
863 Views
Once you know for certain that the mother is dying, it is too late.
- 16/11/2012 04:11:25 PM
770 Views
Statistically speaking...
- 15/11/2012 07:03:51 PM
774 Views
Psst.
- 15/11/2012 09:43:35 PM
833 Views
Re: Statistically speaking...
- 15/11/2012 10:56:35 PM
784 Views
Where's the due process?
- 15/11/2012 11:35:39 PM
847 Views
First, prove that the fetus is a "ONE".
- 16/11/2012 04:14:34 PM
729 Views
That argument is specious
- 16/11/2012 08:36:07 PM
723 Views
But you cannot call another living person an "environment." Only for parasites.
- 16/11/2012 10:16:18 PM
683 Views
Yes I can, look up the word environment
- 17/11/2012 11:49:55 AM
852 Views
No, I do not accept the risk of pregnancy.
- 20/11/2012 01:41:07 PM
741 Views
Win some, lose some
- 15/11/2012 11:29:32 PM
878 Views
Some facts for you - from the article Stephen linked in his reply above, and from general knowledge.
- 16/11/2012 09:38:32 PM
841 Views
That is the most rational argument put forth thus far, HOWEVER
- 17/11/2012 07:06:58 PM
766 Views
Wow.
- 17/11/2012 07:28:23 PM
822 Views
Nah, I don't *try* to insult anyone (most of the time) , though I seem to do so fairly regularly. *NM*
- 18/11/2012 07:41:43 PM
381 Views
Re: That is the most rational argument put forth thus far, HOWEVER
- 17/11/2012 08:07:19 PM
901 Views
Nice decision to turn to insults. Print out your post and let it join your head, up your ass.
- 18/11/2012 07:50:18 PM
778 Views
The difference between Ireland and the UK is about 0.006%
- 17/11/2012 08:31:45 PM
823 Views
It illustrates that the "life of the mother" argument is rare to the point of irrelevance. *NM*
- 18/11/2012 07:45:36 PM
353 Views
And yet this case makes it irrefutably relevant. *NM*
- 20/11/2012 05:18:23 PM
344 Views
No, it really does not. Because the situation is so rare as to not be worth even discussing...
- 21/11/2012 03:24:01 PM
722 Views
In your opinion - in mine, and I suspect others here, it is not.
- 22/11/2012 12:03:20 AM
790 Views
I am not debating opinion, you can't debate opinion, I am trying to point out facts.
- 22/11/2012 05:29:24 PM
707 Views
