There are lots and lots of opinions - and every single one of them is only partially informed.
Thing is - if Roman Polanski wasn't Roman Polanski this would have been over and done decades ago. Seriously. The victim has been saying 'drop it' for decades. If it wasn't for the fact that the guy's famous, this would be the ultimate cold case. Yes, he might have been picked up if he'd gone back to the US but chasing all over the globe trying to get an arrest and extradition?
HOW much has been spent on this? A case which only the media cares about and which is only relevant because the guy is famous?
As to all the 'Hang the rapist pedophile crap' come on people. I've never heard of a serious pedophile who wasn't a repeat offender and if Polanski is, then it's been hidden amazingly well. Did he know the girl's age at the time? No one knows, although Anjelica Huston (who was present and not involved in the case) said "She certainly didn't strike me as an innocent 13 year old". She goes on to say that the girl could have been anywhere up to 25 and she is one of the few who saw her that night.
For those who say you can always tell - rubbish. When I was 19 I was modelling at a fashion show for charity (period costume stuff - I was wearing a 160 year old Tux that'd I'd bought for Civil War/Old West stuff) and chatting up this lovely girl who was around 5'6" tall, very lovely, and very well endowed. I was seriously interested in her until someone told me that she was only 13. But if I hadn't been told that I never would have guessed. I thought she was my own age. Some girls you can tell and some you cannot. Heck my wife gets mistaken for my daughter regularly and gets IDed for everything. If she's had her hair dyed (she has a very few strands of grey which is easily visible against her hair which is nearly black) she looks, literally, half her age. Most folks think she's 15-16 and she just turned 28.
All we have of the case's particulars is a Grand Jury indictment testimony - which isn't subject to cross examination and is pretty much whatever the prosecutor wants it to say unless the victim stands up to the courts. It is coached and not always true. Samantha Geiner has said it's true - but then she kind of has to at this point doesn't she? She's also stood up for Polanski and said that she'd stand in for him in court if the court would allow it to get this dismissed.
That's a pretty powerful statement of action as to what she thinks on the matter - and she's the victim in the case. Can't say as I've ever once heard of a rape victim being willing to do such a thing before.
I expect that the reality of this was that it was something that got started, got out of hand and then went bad. Had these been ordinary people it would have been a quick plea bargain, a slap on the wrist and a record which would have been ignored as long as nothing like it ever happened again.
But this was a media trial and because of that, there were reputations and careers to be made off of it. Justice was much further from anyone's mind then 'How can I benefit from all the press.'
We all know full well that even in non-media cases, trials and courts get stupid. What people are forgetting was that Polanski made a plea bargain, held up his (initial) end of it and then got wind that the courts were going to welch on him. What everyone is forgetting was that he took the plea bargain, among other things, to avoid a trial which he probably would have won. A celebrated director with buckets of cash against some little nobody? The entire thing would have been 'He said/she said' and they would have dragged the girl through the mud in the worst way. That's how rape trials were done in the '70s folks. That was the standard.
But he didn't do that. Quite probably he felt pretty bad about things. A mean person would have forced it to trial and he may well have taken the plea against the advice of his lawyer. We don't know as that info is priviledged.
The other thing to remember is this - under the laws in force at the time - at least if one article I read had it right - the judge could have tossed him in jail on that plea for 50 years. If they were going to welch and it became obvious I might well have left myself. Justice was far from being served there.
Court cases are, sadly, seldom about justice. The law books are full of innocent people being convicted because their lawyers sucked or because the juries were crap or the evidence was cooked or witnesses coerced. The legal system is far from perfect and it gets less perfect where fame is concerned.
Witness the case of a young black man who had entirely consensual oral sex with a classmate who then freaked out later and called rape. He was a football star and honor student and at last count has spent 10 years in jail for an act which isn't even illegal anymore with a girl within a year or two of his own age. What's crazier is that if they'd had intercourse, he'd never seen the inside of a jail cell but because they stopped at oral sex he's in prison as a pedophile for a consensual sex act with a peer.
The point is - the law on these matters is idiotic.
No one but two people know what REALLY happened that night. BOTH of them would like the courts to drop something that happened over 30 years ago and get on with their lives. The state gains nothing from this witch hunt and should have let the matter drop ages ago. It's an embarrassment.
Thing is - if Roman Polanski wasn't Roman Polanski this would have been over and done decades ago. Seriously. The victim has been saying 'drop it' for decades. If it wasn't for the fact that the guy's famous, this would be the ultimate cold case. Yes, he might have been picked up if he'd gone back to the US but chasing all over the globe trying to get an arrest and extradition?
HOW much has been spent on this? A case which only the media cares about and which is only relevant because the guy is famous?
As to all the 'Hang the rapist pedophile crap' come on people. I've never heard of a serious pedophile who wasn't a repeat offender and if Polanski is, then it's been hidden amazingly well. Did he know the girl's age at the time? No one knows, although Anjelica Huston (who was present and not involved in the case) said "She certainly didn't strike me as an innocent 13 year old". She goes on to say that the girl could have been anywhere up to 25 and she is one of the few who saw her that night.
For those who say you can always tell - rubbish. When I was 19 I was modelling at a fashion show for charity (period costume stuff - I was wearing a 160 year old Tux that'd I'd bought for Civil War/Old West stuff) and chatting up this lovely girl who was around 5'6" tall, very lovely, and very well endowed. I was seriously interested in her until someone told me that she was only 13. But if I hadn't been told that I never would have guessed. I thought she was my own age. Some girls you can tell and some you cannot. Heck my wife gets mistaken for my daughter regularly and gets IDed for everything. If she's had her hair dyed (she has a very few strands of grey which is easily visible against her hair which is nearly black) she looks, literally, half her age. Most folks think she's 15-16 and she just turned 28.
All we have of the case's particulars is a Grand Jury indictment testimony - which isn't subject to cross examination and is pretty much whatever the prosecutor wants it to say unless the victim stands up to the courts. It is coached and not always true. Samantha Geiner has said it's true - but then she kind of has to at this point doesn't she? She's also stood up for Polanski and said that she'd stand in for him in court if the court would allow it to get this dismissed.
That's a pretty powerful statement of action as to what she thinks on the matter - and she's the victim in the case. Can't say as I've ever once heard of a rape victim being willing to do such a thing before.
I expect that the reality of this was that it was something that got started, got out of hand and then went bad. Had these been ordinary people it would have been a quick plea bargain, a slap on the wrist and a record which would have been ignored as long as nothing like it ever happened again.
But this was a media trial and because of that, there were reputations and careers to be made off of it. Justice was much further from anyone's mind then 'How can I benefit from all the press.'
We all know full well that even in non-media cases, trials and courts get stupid. What people are forgetting was that Polanski made a plea bargain, held up his (initial) end of it and then got wind that the courts were going to welch on him. What everyone is forgetting was that he took the plea bargain, among other things, to avoid a trial which he probably would have won. A celebrated director with buckets of cash against some little nobody? The entire thing would have been 'He said/she said' and they would have dragged the girl through the mud in the worst way. That's how rape trials were done in the '70s folks. That was the standard.
But he didn't do that. Quite probably he felt pretty bad about things. A mean person would have forced it to trial and he may well have taken the plea against the advice of his lawyer. We don't know as that info is priviledged.
The other thing to remember is this - under the laws in force at the time - at least if one article I read had it right - the judge could have tossed him in jail on that plea for 50 years. If they were going to welch and it became obvious I might well have left myself. Justice was far from being served there.
Court cases are, sadly, seldom about justice. The law books are full of innocent people being convicted because their lawyers sucked or because the juries were crap or the evidence was cooked or witnesses coerced. The legal system is far from perfect and it gets less perfect where fame is concerned.
Witness the case of a young black man who had entirely consensual oral sex with a classmate who then freaked out later and called rape. He was a football star and honor student and at last count has spent 10 years in jail for an act which isn't even illegal anymore with a girl within a year or two of his own age. What's crazier is that if they'd had intercourse, he'd never seen the inside of a jail cell but because they stopped at oral sex he's in prison as a pedophile for a consensual sex act with a peer.
The point is - the law on these matters is idiotic.
No one but two people know what REALLY happened that night. BOTH of them would like the courts to drop something that happened over 30 years ago and get on with their lives. The state gains nothing from this witch hunt and should have let the matter drop ages ago. It's an embarrassment.
I believe you talk a lot of sense. Today.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
/History/Politics/I'm not sure: A commentary on the Roman Polanski arrest
29/09/2009 10:15:12 AM
- 1260 Views
There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 11:53:41 AM
- 463 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 11:57:18 AM
- 553 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 12:09:27 PM
- 327 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 12:15:54 PM
- 418 Views
For thousands of years 13yos have been having sex with much older males.
29/09/2009 02:46:27 PM
- 371 Views
Lots of things have been going on for thousands of years.
29/09/2009 03:35:06 PM
- 327 Views
Well on the flip side
29/09/2009 03:49:35 PM
- 421 Views
if you were talking "consensual", i'd probably at least grudgingly agree
29/09/2009 04:07:08 PM
- 425 Views
Problem is that we don't know
29/09/2009 04:46:15 PM
- 425 Views
he said/she said/lawyer said
29/09/2009 05:01:41 PM
- 478 Views
Yep
29/09/2009 05:28:16 PM
- 448 Views
I was not under the impression he did not know she was a minor
29/09/2009 05:50:38 PM
- 454 Views
Well, Angelica Huston (who was there that night) didn't think she looked 'like a minor'
29/09/2009 06:17:15 PM
- 471 Views
It was a photo shoot for a film why WOULD she look like a minor??
29/09/2009 06:27:00 PM
- 481 Views
Sorry - no it wasn't for a film at all
29/09/2009 06:39:14 PM
- 384 Views
I believe at some point it wasn mentioned to be connected to a film
29/09/2009 06:42:25 PM
- 255 Views
I've never seen anything to support that
29/09/2009 07:01:56 PM
- 276 Views
even if the paperwork didn't show it
29/09/2009 07:06:02 PM
- 468 Views
Possibly
29/09/2009 07:35:33 PM
- 460 Views
and i'm saying that if it was under contest
29/09/2009 07:38:24 PM
- 417 Views
here is a photo of her taken that same year.
29/09/2009 08:10:21 PM
- 477 Views
Seen that one as part of my research on this
29/09/2009 08:22:33 PM
- 499 Views
I think it very telling that you want to take this line of when Polanski doesn't
29/09/2009 08:36:47 PM
- 349 Views
Really? Who says?
29/09/2009 08:42:38 PM
- 403 Views
I can't prove it wasn't aliens using mind control rays that forced him to do it
29/09/2009 08:57:10 PM
- 315 Views
There is one thing I would like to say.
29/09/2009 09:03:06 PM
- 322 Views
Absolutely unacceptable behavior for an administrator, Avendesora.
30/09/2009 10:44:32 PM
- 402 Views
actually, it was an honest mistake. I accidentally clicked on "edit" instead of "reply".
01/10/2009 06:25:48 PM
- 276 Views
he could have had a trial and chose not to
29/09/2009 05:41:11 PM
- 429 Views
Yes, he could have
29/09/2009 05:56:05 PM
- 396 Views
so he fled the country to spare her the humilation of a trial?
29/09/2009 08:11:59 PM
- 419 Views
Nope
29/09/2009 08:28:58 PM
- 282 Views
no it isn't but you seem to have trouble understanding he drugged and rapped a child
30/09/2009 09:24:53 PM
- 446 Views
You seem to have trouble understanding that an accusation isn't proof
30/09/2009 11:04:35 PM
- 444 Views
The coward fled the country before anything could be proven
01/10/2009 06:25:27 AM
- 433 Views
You really don't get it do you?
01/10/2009 04:20:36 PM
- 228 Views
I don't get it??????
01/10/2009 05:22:51 PM
- 311 Views
Yeah - you don't and it's a good thing you're not part of the legal system
01/10/2009 05:32:57 PM
- 399 Views
For thousands of years gays have been persecuted and treated as abhorrent perverts.
02/10/2009 02:57:47 AM
- 448 Views
And a big fuck you to you too.
05/10/2009 03:08:09 PM
- 269 Views
He's just a troll, as he's shown in many threads. *NM*
05/10/2009 03:19:14 PM
- 234 Views
Yes, it's not like I have a valid point or anything. *NM*
05/10/2009 07:16:13 PM
- 253 Views
Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
05/10/2009 07:46:18 PM
- 275 Views
Well, I guess you'll have to fulfill your role here and pass sentence...
06/10/2009 09:19:34 PM
- 436 Views
Oh, I'm sorry. It's not ok to point out the hypocritical holes in your argument? My bad.
05/10/2009 07:15:33 PM
- 249 Views
I've been following this with some interest
29/09/2009 03:28:36 PM
- 284 Views
That was my impression as well.
29/09/2009 03:38:48 PM
- 270 Views
I agree with many of your points, but on some the facts seem to say something else.
29/09/2009 04:13:09 PM
- 436 Views
Problem of course is that those are not 'facts'
29/09/2009 04:58:28 PM
- 454 Views
first you demand fact before judgement then you make a judgement on your opinion?
29/09/2009 05:04:59 PM
- 395 Views
because she doesn't have any excuse to belly up either
29/09/2009 04:17:06 PM
- 430 Views
Re: because she doesn't have any excuse to belly up either
29/09/2009 05:17:57 PM
- 354 Views
*snort*
29/09/2009 05:30:25 PM
- 375 Views
I would have to agree with you there, actually
29/09/2009 05:47:13 PM
- 500 Views
Re: I would have to agree with your first point, but not the second
29/09/2009 05:47:40 PM
- 475 Views
There is no way in hell he did not know she was underage.
29/09/2009 05:55:37 PM
- 429 Views
Not necessarily true at all
29/09/2009 06:32:18 PM
- 373 Views
Somehow, i heavily doubt the fact she was NOT 18 would never have come to light
29/09/2009 06:40:20 PM
- 438 Views
You may be right, I don't know.
29/09/2009 06:58:45 PM
- 447 Views
so you agree he is guilty to the allegation he pleaded guilty to of sex with a minor?
29/09/2009 07:09:07 PM
- 353 Views
There was never any doubt of that
29/09/2009 07:46:43 PM
- 339 Views
Yeah, I agree about the vigilante part and the extreme reactions...
29/09/2009 07:58:18 PM
- 466 Views
I think I'm reading that article more critically than you are.
29/09/2009 08:37:23 PM
- 405 Views
Or you've already made up your mind, while I'm basing mine on what I read.
29/09/2009 08:46:56 PM
- 475 Views
An article that has a lot of additional detail...
29/09/2009 07:18:29 PM
- 457 Views
I wish i could put a nice big star next to this.
29/09/2009 07:29:38 PM
- 363 Views
Umm - why?
29/09/2009 08:04:29 PM
- 417 Views
Yes, well, online newspaper archives don't tend to date back very far...
29/09/2009 08:14:52 PM
- 442 Views
Oh, and if you want to read the op-ed she wrote...
29/09/2009 08:20:06 PM
- 380 Views
Camilla - he drugged and raped a 13-year old.....what else do you need to know? *NM*
29/09/2009 06:19:19 PM
- 257 Views
I don't know that. Neither do you. Which is part of it. *NM*
29/09/2009 06:20:22 PM
- 251 Views
Yes we do.....
29/09/2009 06:30:46 PM
- 413 Views
No, we don't.
29/09/2009 06:48:35 PM
- 365 Views
if these "Facts" were false
29/09/2009 07:02:50 PM
- 395 Views
That's extremely naive
29/09/2009 08:07:15 PM
- 285 Views
i fail to see how this is naive
29/09/2009 08:35:59 PM
- 437 Views
The naive part
29/09/2009 08:49:18 PM
- 446 Views
I'm not assuming anyone (not just her personal testimony) was telling the truth
29/09/2009 08:56:52 PM
- 467 Views
I think that I'm just more cynical than you are
29/09/2009 09:12:12 PM
- 406 Views
So because i'm not cynical about the court system and have a different train of logic
29/09/2009 09:25:53 PM
- 423 Views
Not necessarily wrong
29/09/2009 09:43:33 PM
- 408 Views
Uhm, his bargain wasn't 40-odd days in evaulation
29/09/2009 09:51:22 PM
- 232 Views
Not what I read, but this whole thing is so messy...
29/09/2009 10:25:59 PM
- 332 Views
I don't remember which article it was from
29/09/2009 10:32:32 PM
- 210 Views
One thing that was clear
29/09/2009 11:08:43 PM
- 437 Views
Ah I didn't catch that
29/09/2009 11:15:06 PM
- 386 Views
Could you source that?
29/09/2009 11:18:46 PM
- 413 Views
it's one of the articles that's been linked
29/09/2009 11:59:02 PM
- 375 Views
CNN has it the way I described, but I don't know how good their info is. *NM*
30/09/2009 11:05:45 PM
- 109 Views
Yes, we do.....drugs & rape of a 13-year old
29/09/2009 07:10:02 PM
- 379 Views
you do know that just because you repeat something it doesn't instantly become true? *NM*
29/09/2009 07:11:03 PM
- 108 Views
Wow - I guess every allegation ever made by a prosecutor is true
29/09/2009 08:09:43 PM
- 284 Views
I guess you believe every criminal who says "I didn't do it".....
29/09/2009 08:18:29 PM
- 362 Views
Nope
29/09/2009 09:14:02 PM
- 278 Views
He admitted it.
29/09/2009 10:45:43 PM
- 417 Views
You don't get it do you?
29/09/2009 11:15:27 PM
- 384 Views
Seriously, are you related to Roman the Rapist?
30/09/2009 01:11:44 AM
- 387 Views
I want to go on record as saying: I really dislike agreeing with you
30/09/2009 05:03:24 AM
- 467 Views
Oh, now Amy's accusing me of being a pedophile, that's just funny
01/10/2009 12:23:53 AM
- 372 Views
Re: Oh, now Amy's accusing me of being a pedophile, that's just funny
01/10/2009 05:55:46 AM
- 412 Views
Honestly Amy, you know nothing whatsoever about my life or why I do things
01/10/2009 04:03:38 PM
- 400 Views
I think you're getting way out of line here, Amy. *NM*
01/10/2009 04:07:59 PM
- 229 Views
I agree, and already said the same once. It appears that was deleted. *NM*
01/10/2009 05:15:07 PM
- 267 Views
I think for the 1st time ever i'm actually stunned by the comments on this board.
29/09/2009 07:14:18 PM
- 328 Views
Oh but he didn't KNOW
29/09/2009 07:17:55 PM
- 295 Views
Ignorance doesn't have to be proven in court
29/09/2009 08:11:31 PM
- 249 Views
no you have back asswards
29/09/2009 08:14:36 PM
- 280 Views
You're talking ethics and then switch to law
29/09/2009 09:17:02 PM
- 250 Views
yes the law can be stupid but not so stupid that you can use the
29/09/2009 10:32:49 PM
- 291 Views
Oh it's EASILY that stupid and even stupider
29/09/2009 10:58:33 PM
- 416 Views
If the girl has to call and ask her mommy if she can stay late you should ask her age
30/09/2009 04:04:33 PM
- 270 Views
He knew her age. The photo-shoot was specifically looking at young girls.
30/09/2009 04:42:01 PM
- 388 Views
I think he's ignoring such trivial details as "that was the specific age being photographed" *NM*
30/09/2009 04:56:10 PM
- 235 Views
Of course he knew he age
30/09/2009 05:01:19 PM
- 380 Views
Obviously - because you say so right?
30/09/2009 11:25:18 PM
- 237 Views
Wow, way to make up 'facts'
30/09/2009 11:23:13 PM
- 462 Views
Way to go for a straw man
29/09/2009 07:45:44 PM
- 419 Views
No one has excused him. But there is no point any longer in going after him.
29/09/2009 08:15:42 PM
- 492 Views
Agreed - I can't believe people are defending this d-bag.....amazing! *NM*
29/09/2009 08:25:05 PM
- 236 Views
well
29/09/2009 08:34:56 PM
- 393 Views
I'm all for the gray and considerin both sides.
29/09/2009 08:45:50 PM
- 303 Views
Ben Franklin once said
29/09/2009 09:30:16 PM
- 447 Views
*snort*
29/09/2009 10:02:13 PM
- 415 Views
I'd say you need to spend more time around lawyers
29/09/2009 10:40:05 PM
- 355 Views
Exactly Nossy
29/09/2009 09:20:14 PM
- 481 Views
I've decided I really don't care about this either way at all.
29/09/2009 08:38:14 PM
- 339 Views
It has an effect on good cinema *NM*
29/09/2009 08:52:58 PM
- 156 Views
There's a lot of misinformation flying around here.
29/09/2009 11:22:29 PM
- 431 Views
That would be more convincing if you didn't have incorrect information yourself.
29/09/2009 11:58:40 PM
- 251 Views
I just worked that out.
30/09/2009 12:07:43 AM
- 418 Views
Re: I just worked that out.
30/09/2009 12:28:13 AM
- 383 Views
In my opinion...
30/09/2009 04:57:44 PM
- 367 Views
Can I just say...
30/09/2009 05:54:47 PM
- 388 Views
The state is also a vicitm
30/09/2009 06:17:22 PM
- 383 Views
Hardly, in this case
30/09/2009 11:57:48 PM
- 267 Views
He drugged and raped her.....please feel free to pass this along..... *NM*
01/10/2009 12:23:49 AM
- 259 Views
you know your arguments would have more merit if you had a clue what your were talking about
01/10/2009 06:24:35 AM
- 242 Views
You should know what you are talking about before you post
01/10/2009 04:18:50 PM
- 447 Views
OK go learn something and then come back
01/10/2009 05:15:45 PM
- 418 Views
I note that you ignore the fact that I just proved you wrong...
01/10/2009 05:27:01 PM
- 351 Views
no you just mistated some crap that I ignored *sigh*
01/10/2009 06:30:03 PM
- 251 Views
Well - there's another accusation of pedophilia for being skeptical of a borked law case
01/10/2009 06:52:08 PM
- 235 Views
The girl and mother requested to cut a deal, so the 13-year old wouldn't have to testify.....
01/10/2009 04:28:49 PM
- 224 Views
This may help some of the argument, but sadly not much
01/10/2009 02:06:22 AM
- 397 Views
It's not just that he admitted to it in the plea bargain.
01/10/2009 03:10:37 AM
- 449 Views
Well this was the first proof I found that he actually did know her age around the court date
01/10/2009 04:16:19 PM
- 415 Views
Yes, looking at him very strangely.....he's jumping the shark big-time on this one!
01/10/2009 04:31:43 PM
- 261 Views
Good news - French government drops support for director Roman Polanski
01/10/2009 04:46:42 PM
- 403 Views
Not only that, but the DA that said he coached the Judge is now claiming he lied to the documentary
01/10/2009 07:26:30 PM
- 394 Views
Well, unless I find some new facts to post - I think I'm done with this thread
01/10/2009 06:59:36 PM
- 526 Views
Re: Well, unless I find some new facts to post - I think I'm done with this thread
01/10/2009 08:41:01 PM
- 296 Views
I agree the attacks on you personally were not warranted and were out of line.
03/10/2009 03:02:03 AM
- 438 Views