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People who want abortions badly enough to have one will, whether or not law makes it "convenient." Joel Send a noteboard - 27/10/2012 02:58:52 AM
that would be aborted if it were legal, but wouldn't if illegal. People's behavior changes based on the law. You can't possibly think that legalizing abortion didn't increase the number of abortions taking place.

If abortion was not legal, fewer abortions would take place. I feel bad saying "fewer" because it almost minimizes just how large the difference would be.

If abortion were illegal fewer abortions would be DETECTED, and thousands, if not millions, of women would be crippled/killed in the process. Yet abortion INCIDENCE would likely change little, because abortion is rarely the casually callous decision of convenience its opponents contend, so anti-abortion laws are little deterrent (the possibility of serious injury or death was probably a greater one, and still insufficient for many.)

Even were all that not true, we are STILL not talking about something unambiguously a child, and you will not lead me into that false paradigm. Even ONE woman dying a painful miserable death because you and many others BELIEVE—with little evidence, let alone proof—all fetuses are children whose lives abortion bans save, that would be injustice. We do not get to simply declare things people on scanty evidence and subject undeniable people to their rights (except, of course, corporations, but that is another rant. ;))

Believe what you wish, but legislate only what you can prove. I believe but cannot prove life begins at conception (VERY soon after, at the least,) and therefore will never have an abortion; I strongly urge others to adopt the same position in its entirety. I cannot, however, force them to do so without proof I am right.
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This message last edited by Joel on 27/10/2012 at 03:05:17 AM
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God Distances Self From Christian Right - 26/10/2012 01:56:18 PM 1218 Views
Do you really think God would condone abortion? *NM* - 26/10/2012 03:28:25 PM 356 Views
Depends on when a fetus is a being, which the GOP contends is "at the moment of fertilization." - 26/10/2012 03:57:44 PM 549 Views
Actually, I don't see any place in the Bible where God is.... - 26/10/2012 04:00:19 PM 722 Views
Where did I say one word about God accommodating our sin? - 26/10/2012 05:55:52 PM 584 Views
You're technically right, Joel, but... - 26/10/2012 07:32:10 PM 592 Views
Almost may count in hand grenades, but definitely not in canon. - 26/10/2012 10:28:57 PM 632 Views
That's a dangerous stance to take as a Christian - 27/10/2012 01:11:14 AM 567 Views
I agree it is good reading; that does not make it binding. - 27/10/2012 01:37:20 AM 582 Views
Jesus that Greek sounds weird to my ears. - 27/10/2012 03:43:40 AM 678 Views
It's really just simplified Attic. - 27/10/2012 06:11:48 AM 563 Views
Condemn women to die? What a strange way to look at this. - 26/10/2012 07:17:16 PM 636 Views
women *did* die before abortion was legalized, there should be no dispute of this aspect - 26/10/2012 07:27:28 PM 641 Views
Very good point, but that was not (at least soley) what I meant, no. - 26/10/2012 11:12:32 PM 561 Views
If something should be illegal in its own right, it is nonsense to legalize it because criminals - 26/10/2012 11:40:41 PM 585 Views
If banning it saves no lives but inevitably takes more, the ban is counterproductive. - 27/10/2012 12:48:51 AM 609 Views
That is absolutely absurd. It saves the lives of all... - 27/10/2012 12:59:16 AM 624 Views
you're still missing the point that abortions will still be performed if it were illegal - 27/10/2012 01:02:57 AM 526 Views
I'm not missing the point, you are. - 27/10/2012 01:21:39 AM 684 Views
People who want abortions badly enough to have one will, whether or not law makes it "convenient." - 27/10/2012 02:58:52 AM 528 Views
You're stuck. - 27/10/2012 07:07:36 AM 648 Views
not entirely - 27/10/2012 03:23:07 PM 650 Views
Give me facts, not supposition. - 27/10/2012 04:10:57 PM 595 Views
Perfect example of media sensationalism - 26/10/2012 04:13:41 PM 628 Views
I agree with your larger point and am not trying to be argumentative - 26/10/2012 04:29:23 PM 604 Views
THAT is the whole problem with his comment. - 26/10/2012 05:59:40 PM 527 Views
Or it could mean.... - 26/10/2012 11:50:53 PM 583 Views
Re: Or it could mean.... - 27/10/2012 12:14:31 AM 564 Views
I agree - 26/10/2012 07:27:21 PM 618 Views
It's always a slippery slope, talking about what God did and did not intend. - 27/10/2012 12:06:22 AM 583 Views
Yes - 27/10/2012 02:20:46 AM 602 Views
I suppose it is splitting hairs. - 27/10/2012 04:32:43 PM 569 Views
Pregnancy cannot be separated from its cause. - 26/10/2012 05:51:28 PM 574 Views
Re: Pregnancy cannot be separated from its cause. - 27/10/2012 01:17:04 AM 574 Views
Who said anything about denying them funds? - 27/10/2012 01:54:39 AM 600 Views
God intends everything. - 27/10/2012 04:40:58 PM 659 Views
"Intends" is a big word. - 27/10/2012 09:23:13 PM 604 Views
Re: "Intends" is a big word. - 29/10/2012 04:56:49 PM 547 Views
I am familiar with the Problem of Evil. - 29/10/2012 06:41:13 PM 558 Views
Absolutely agree. *NM* - 26/10/2012 11:47:04 PM 310 Views
It is sad that this is getting more press than the Bengazi scandal *NM* - 26/10/2012 05:58:22 PM 312 Views
It is sad partisanship trumps policy for so many. - 26/10/2012 10:52:34 PM 506 Views
The comment that sparked this was moronic even to the vast majority of religious conservatives. *NM* - 26/10/2012 09:42:51 PM 331 Views
Yet its author remains the only Senate nominee for whom Romney is running ads. - 26/10/2012 10:53:37 PM 547 Views
Is the senator's comment more disgusting to you than the President's vote against the - 26/10/2012 11:54:55 PM 557 Views
how does one vote against a bill which passed by unanimous consent? - 27/10/2012 12:11:37 AM 560 Views
As a state senator in 2001 in illinois he was the sole opponent to the aforementioned bill. *NM* - 27/10/2012 12:14:08 AM 329 Views
[citation needed] - 27/10/2012 12:15:41 AM 513 Views
It was an illinois state bill. *NM* - 27/10/2012 12:23:12 AM 315 Views
yes, i finally found *something* regarding a state bill which he did oppose - 27/10/2012 12:34:40 AM 552 Views
It is not hard to find, really. - 27/10/2012 02:40:06 AM 520 Views
Links: - 27/10/2012 12:51:12 AM 579 Views
Double post. *NM* - 27/10/2012 12:18:42 AM 310 Views
amazing - 28/10/2012 05:04:21 AM 664 Views

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