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True, but disputing founding articles of faith benefits from tact. Joel Send a noteboard - 27/10/2012 02:02:48 AM
I believe I was good at that once; I am honestly unsure what happened. Fatigue and impatience is only a reason, not an excuse. :[
And honestly, if Mourdock is a Calvinist, then the statement he made is an article of faith that he's entitled to.

Sure, as IN voters are entitled to reject it in a Senator. I did recently argue bigotry should be legal but subject to market censure in private business, after all. ;)

That having been said, I agree with what you've said here, in that omniscient anticipation is not the same as dictating the choices. It leads one to serious error. For that matter, believing that one is foreordained for salvation can lead people to do some terrible things with a sense of impunity. Faith is not just a matter of words, but of letting that faith into one's heart as well.

Fully agreed, if hard to live up to consistently. Impossible unaided, but then, it is not about mans merit or glory.
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God Distances Self From Christian Right Joel - 26/10/2012 01:56:18 PM 1308 Views
Do you really think God would condone abortion? *NM* Dark Knight - 26/10/2012 03:28:25 PM 385 Views
Depends on when a fetus is a being, which the GOP contends is "at the moment of fertilization." Joel - 26/10/2012 03:57:44 PM 618 Views
Actually, I don't see any place in the Bible where God is.... Jeordam - 26/10/2012 04:00:19 PM 800 Views
Where did I say one word about God accommodating our sin? Joel - 26/10/2012 05:55:52 PM 660 Views
You're technically right, Joel, but... Tom - 26/10/2012 07:32:10 PM 636 Views
Almost may count in hand grenades, but definitely not in canon. Joel - 26/10/2012 10:28:57 PM 714 Views
Your lack of scientific understanding is everything in this instance. Jeordam - 26/10/2012 10:44:05 PM 648 Views
Because whether God intends rape is aaaall about science, right? Joel - 26/10/2012 11:08:16 PM 573 Views
You're getting rather emphatic. Jeordam - 26/10/2012 11:27:07 PM 629 Views
Broad fundamental change to US law by controlling all three branches of government provokes that. Joel - 27/10/2012 12:44:59 AM 636 Views
That's a dangerous stance to take as a Christian Tom - 27/10/2012 01:11:14 AM 648 Views
I agree it is good reading; that does not make it binding. Joel - 27/10/2012 01:37:20 AM 652 Views
Jesus that Greek sounds weird to my ears. Dan - 27/10/2012 03:43:40 AM 743 Views
It's really just simplified Attic. Tom - 27/10/2012 06:11:48 AM 632 Views
Condemn women to die? What a strange way to look at this. Narg - 26/10/2012 07:17:16 PM 682 Views
women *did* die before abortion was legalized, there should be no dispute of this aspect moondog - 26/10/2012 07:27:28 PM 713 Views
So we legalize an illegal act because some are willing to harm themselves to do it? *NM* Narg - 26/10/2012 10:02:37 PM 352 Views
no, we legalize the act so that it can be performed safely without killing both mother *and* child *NM* moondog - 26/10/2012 11:08:52 PM 365 Views
At least you acknowledge it as a child. *NM* Jeordam - 26/10/2012 11:28:30 PM 362 Views
Very good point, but that was not (at least soley) what I meant, no. Joel - 26/10/2012 11:12:32 PM 636 Views
If something should be illegal in its own right, it is nonsense to legalize it because criminals Narg - 26/10/2012 11:40:41 PM 667 Views
If banning it saves no lives but inevitably takes more, the ban is counterproductive. Joel - 27/10/2012 12:48:51 AM 674 Views
That is absolutely absurd. It saves the lives of all... Narg - 27/10/2012 12:59:16 AM 700 Views
you're still missing the point that abortions will still be performed if it were illegal moondog - 27/10/2012 01:02:57 AM 608 Views
I'm not missing the point, you are. Narg - 27/10/2012 01:21:39 AM 758 Views
This isn't necessarily true, though it is often due to other factors. nossy - 27/10/2012 02:48:00 PM 660 Views
People who want abortions badly enough to have one will, whether or not law makes it "convenient." Joel - 27/10/2012 02:58:52 AM 593 Views
You're stuck. Narg - 27/10/2012 07:07:36 AM 719 Views
not entirely nossy - 27/10/2012 03:23:07 PM 732 Views
Give me facts, not supposition. Joel - 27/10/2012 04:10:57 PM 670 Views
Telling a woman whose life was in danger not to save it with abortion condemned her to die Joel - 26/10/2012 10:48:53 PM 604 Views
There is no proof that you would accept that a fetus is a child. Narg - 26/10/2012 11:31:50 PM 606 Views
Fantastic question. Jeordam - 26/10/2012 11:43:51 PM 637 Views
No, I would err on the side of caution; have often said as much in just those words. Joel - 27/10/2012 01:18:19 AM 620 Views
Sure there is; show me a fetus acting indepedently and consciously. Joel - 27/10/2012 01:15:00 AM 626 Views
Perfect example of media sensationalism Palatine - 26/10/2012 04:13:41 PM 711 Views
I agree with your larger point and am not trying to be argumentative Sareitha Sedai - 26/10/2012 04:29:23 PM 676 Views
yeah, but what do women know about women's issues? this is man talk time! moondog - 26/10/2012 05:01:58 PM 636 Views
THAT is the whole problem with his comment. Joel - 26/10/2012 05:59:40 PM 603 Views
Or it could mean.... Jeordam - 26/10/2012 11:50:53 PM 655 Views
Re: Or it could mean.... moondog - 27/10/2012 12:14:31 AM 637 Views
Having addressed this in response to Legolas in moondogs thread on Mourdock, I will just link that. Joel - 27/10/2012 01:43:48 AM 660 Views
I agree nossy - 26/10/2012 07:27:21 PM 699 Views
It's always a slippery slope, talking about what God did and did not intend. Legolas - 27/10/2012 12:06:22 AM 656 Views
Yes nossy - 27/10/2012 02:20:46 AM 674 Views
There is a logically consistent way; you did not ask for it, so I will be brief. Joel - 27/10/2012 02:53:09 AM 639 Views
I suppose it is splitting hairs. Palatine - 27/10/2012 04:32:43 PM 644 Views
Pregnancy cannot be separated from its cause. Joel - 26/10/2012 05:51:28 PM 660 Views
Re: Pregnancy cannot be separated from its cause. Cannoli - 27/10/2012 01:17:04 AM 651 Views
Who said anything about denying them funds? Joel - 27/10/2012 01:54:39 AM 682 Views
God intends everything. Palatine - 27/10/2012 04:40:58 PM 733 Views
"Intends" is a big word. Joel - 27/10/2012 09:23:13 PM 651 Views
Re: "Intends" is a big word. Palatine - 29/10/2012 04:56:49 PM 619 Views
I am familiar with the Problem of Evil. Joel - 29/10/2012 06:41:13 PM 639 Views
Absolutely agree. *NM* Legolas - 26/10/2012 11:47:04 PM 339 Views
It is sad that this is getting more press than the Bengazi scandal *NM* random thoughts - 26/10/2012 05:58:22 PM 340 Views
that's probably because it's more relevant to most people's lives *NM* moondog - 26/10/2012 06:06:10 PM 360 Views
It is sad partisanship trumps policy for so many. Joel - 26/10/2012 10:52:34 PM 575 Views
This entire scandal really speaks to the Calvinist heresy in particular. Tom - 26/10/2012 07:10:38 PM 627 Views
I was trying REALLY hard to avoid putting it in precisely those terms. Joel - 26/10/2012 10:12:17 PM 673 Views
Well, but really, the fundamental crux of the issue is precisely that. Tom - 27/10/2012 01:03:26 AM 636 Views
True, but disputing founding articles of faith benefits from tact. Joel - 27/10/2012 02:02:48 AM 579 Views
Come on, Tom. Dannymac - 27/10/2012 03:29:39 AM 609 Views
Are you really defending Calvinism? Be better at metaphysics. Dan - 27/10/2012 03:36:22 AM 691 Views
That's precisely the poor sophistry I'd expect from a Calvinist. Tom - 27/10/2012 06:06:31 AM 640 Views
I believe HE grasps the difference between predestination and determinism well. Joel - 27/10/2012 09:33:14 PM 674 Views
The comment that sparked this was moronic even to the vast majority of religious conservatives. *NM* Narg - 26/10/2012 09:42:51 PM 353 Views
Yet its author remains the only Senate nominee for whom Romney is running ads. Joel - 26/10/2012 10:53:37 PM 620 Views
Is the senator's comment more disgusting to you than the President's vote against the Narg - 26/10/2012 11:54:55 PM 630 Views
how does one vote against a bill which passed by unanimous consent? moondog - 27/10/2012 12:11:37 AM 624 Views
As a state senator in 2001 in illinois he was the sole opponent to the aforementioned bill. *NM* Narg - 27/10/2012 12:14:08 AM 356 Views
[citation needed] moondog - 27/10/2012 12:15:41 AM 587 Views
It was an illinois state bill. *NM* Narg - 27/10/2012 12:23:12 AM 335 Views
yes, i finally found *something* regarding a state bill which he did oppose moondog - 27/10/2012 12:34:40 AM 632 Views
It is not hard to find, really. Joel - 27/10/2012 02:40:06 AM 590 Views
Links: Narg - 27/10/2012 12:51:12 AM 654 Views
Double post. *NM* Narg - 27/10/2012 12:18:42 AM 336 Views
The BAIPA became federal law 2 years before Obamas Senate win; he says he would have voted for it. Joel - 27/10/2012 02:33:26 AM 612 Views
Once he started taking fire for it he said he would have voted for it? Well that clears that up. Narg - 27/10/2012 07:09:21 AM 804 Views
He "took fire" for a federal law passed before he was in Congress? Joel - 27/10/2012 04:08:25 PM 690 Views
amazing imlad - 28/10/2012 05:04:21 AM 742 Views
Women are certainly encouraged to weigh in, but everyone is entitled to thoughts on the matter Joel - 28/10/2012 02:22:55 PM 625 Views
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