That is just it: Most US marriage laws are already areligious.
Joel Send a noteboard - 23/10/2012 05:08:38 PM
It would be much more logical to join the religious argument about marriage instead of opposing it. Argue that it violates the Non-Establishment amendment, thus invalidating the existing marriage laws then participate in recrafting them in a more universal manner.
The Non-Establishment Clause requires no less, as does a functioning society. Many churches do not recognize marriages performed by a justice of the peace, let alone common law marriage, for good reason. I am told that couples in TX are legally married if they live together for six months and either says they are married with the knowledge but not denial of the other. Few churches consider that marriage, but the law does, with all pursuant rights, privileges and obligations (and TX is a community property state.) Just as obviously the Christian Church does not recognize Muslim marriages, Islam does not recognize Hindu marriages etc. etc. The law recognizes each of them, because it concerns itself with law, not religion, as the Constitution requires.
However, you couldn't then also try to force social and religious acceptance for their way of life down everyone's throats.
No, but the Equal Protection Clause would still require tolerance of them. No one is demanding the law force religious acceptance regardless; churches are, as always, free to marry anyone they like, or not—except, of course, federal and most state laws do not recognize gay marriages even when performed by churches. What does the Non-Establishment Clause say about that?
This whole debate is a stunning study in cognitive dissonance: The "Keep Big Brother out of my life and pocket" brigade demands government tell everyone whom they can marry. Authoritarian government is bad precisely because individuals cannot pick WHICH authority is in charge or hold it accountable.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
2nd Circuit rules in favor of Edith Windsor. DOMA unconstitutional.
18/10/2012 08:37:12 PM
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Completely unsurprising since the Justice department refuses to defend the law.
18/10/2012 09:05:16 PM
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For a moment there I thought you were saying the Supreme Court had ruled it unconstitutional.
18/10/2012 09:10:16 PM
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Do you know if there's a case about DOMA and the "full faith and credit" clause?
18/10/2012 10:05:11 PM
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I don't know offhand, but my gchat friend will. If she pops on again, I'll ask her. But...
18/10/2012 10:37:09 PM
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I asked her about pending cases taking on Section 2. "None that I know of," she answered. *NM*
19/10/2012 12:46:21 AM
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I wonder about that one as well.
19/10/2012 12:39:54 AM
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Re: I wonder about that one as well.
19/10/2012 01:18:22 AM
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Either a ban discriminates against those affected more than those unaffected, or it does not.
19/10/2012 03:48:32 PM
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Gun control laws can equally affect everyone, though, is my point.
20/10/2012 10:52:41 PM
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I'm sure there is. The California case is likely to discuss it.
19/10/2012 02:48:02 PM
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I just have to note in passing that Ted Olsons memoires will make fascinating reading.
19/10/2012 04:44:15 PM
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Also, hooray! Let's hope SCOTUS adheres (if you use that term over there). *NM*
18/10/2012 10:59:14 PM
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As it should be; the DoMA was always a brazen affront to the Equal Protection Clause
19/10/2012 12:06:13 AM
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Not really
19/10/2012 02:16:04 PM
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Then by the "legal argument" you all propose I should have the "right" to marry a spoon...
19/10/2012 05:48:32 PM
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if your spoon or dog is capable of making power of attorney decisions then by all means do so *NM*
19/10/2012 06:41:43 PM
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How about I "marry" a corporation then. THAT is how stupid the entire arguement is. *NM*
19/10/2012 07:25:13 PM
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provide for us a legal reason why marrying a corporation should be recognized by the US gov't
19/10/2012 08:09:08 PM
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The argument above was that there was no jsutification it should not, thus it should be allowed.
19/10/2012 10:57:16 PM
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you are only offering your own emotional take on a legal decision there is no logic in your posts
19/10/2012 11:12:17 PM
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Wrong. I do not have an emotional stake in this, I am simply using logic. *NM*
22/10/2012 03:59:08 PM
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saying you should be able to marry a spoon or corporation is not logical reasoning. try again *NM*
22/10/2012 06:19:29 PM
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EXACTLY, and that was the point I was making. Congratualtions for figuring that out. *NM*
22/10/2012 11:34:46 PM
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you are obviously using some humpty dumpty definition of "logic" then *NM*
22/10/2012 11:40:12 PM
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No, you apparently failed reading comprehension in school.
23/10/2012 03:08:44 PM
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#1: fuck you. #2: you are still not using logic
23/10/2012 05:50:14 PM
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Ah yes, the fuck you argument... the height of all intelectual persuits... and you call ME emotional
23/10/2012 06:47:21 PM
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i see -- it's ok to be insulting as long as the "f-bomb" is not used. got it.
23/10/2012 10:27:54 PM
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Another good example of how corporations aren't the same as people. *NM*
19/10/2012 10:07:32 PM
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Would you be the bride? Would you wear white?
20/10/2012 07:58:52 PM
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You have obviously not read my posts very carefully
22/10/2012 04:23:22 PM
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Ah, the "I have Gay Friends" argument.
22/10/2012 09:33:41 PM
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No, I am not, try reading everything I have written on the subject before jumping to conclusions.
22/10/2012 11:41:05 PM
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It was only a matter of time.
19/10/2012 02:49:21 PM
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I do not understand why fundamentalists demand government dictate religion.
19/10/2012 03:22:54 PM
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Which is why the entire method of legal attack being mounted is dumb.
19/10/2012 05:53:12 PM
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the only ones forcing their beliefs down everyone's throats are people like yourself
19/10/2012 06:44:57 PM
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There is no right being denied...
19/10/2012 07:22:24 PM
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that is bullshit and you know it. or, alternatively, you do not understand legality in any way
19/10/2012 08:06:54 PM
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Re: that is bullshit and you know it. or, alternatively, you do not understand legality in any way
19/10/2012 11:11:55 PM
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nobody is arguing the legal right to marry, they are arguing about the legal rights marriage gives
19/10/2012 11:37:14 PM
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There are no "marriage rights" NONE, zip, ziltch, nada...
22/10/2012 04:18:15 PM
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why bother settling custody in a divorce then if there are no "marriage rights"?
22/10/2012 06:38:14 PM
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You are making one, huge factual mistake that is screwing up your entire argument:
20/10/2012 11:00:28 PM
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That is just it: Most US marriage laws are already areligious.
23/10/2012 05:08:38 PM
- 536 Views