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From a legal perspective, all of your arguments are irrelevant Tom Send a noteboard - 21/10/2012 03:12:39 PM
Voting in the United States was originally established under dozens of assumptions: women should not vote, slavery existed and slaves were only 3/5 of a person for census purposes (and certainly could not vote), property ownership was necessary to be civic, etc.

Tradition, and even legislative intent, are only important when the scope of a law is being reviewed by an appellate court (including the Supreme Court). However, when laws are intentionally changed, that legislative intent and tradition become irrelevant.

From a Constitutional perspective, equal protection under the law has nothing to do with tradition, previous application or anything else. The argument that the law is being applied in a discriminatory manner is the basis for the challenge, and in this case it is clear that there is a valid argument (whether or not ultimately accepted by the court) for discrimination. Prior application can be overturned, even after decades of implementation, such as in Brown v. Board of Education.

Under your reasoning, in the Brown case we would just say, "Well, the laws were written with the intent of having separate schools, and it's been the tradition in the South to keep the races separate all the way back to the foundation of the Republic, and furthermore, the notion that the races should remain separate is a historic reality stretching back to Biblical times, when God enjoined the nation of Israel to remain separate from the peoples around it. We also have Plessy v. Ferguson which decided the matter."

However, the law can change (1) when we affirmatively change it, dispensing with "tradition" or (2) when a successful challenge is made that the Constitutional right of equal protection is invalid.

My response was simply to say that polygamy could be distinguished from gay marriage in a strictly legal manner, because the privilege is for two people. I think that any attempt to normalize three- or four- person relationships (or more) would by necessity fail, because employers would not want to have to extend insurance to more than one spouse, existing inheritance laws would have to be changed, etc. It could theoretically be done, but there is no requirement to change anything to accommodate threesomes.

The point was that there is no "slippery slope".

As an aside, the childbearing argument is a worthless one. There is no requirement that a couple ever have children or even plan on having children in order to get a marriage license. The argument that the homosexual can choose to enjoy the benefits of marriage if only he or she would marry someone of the opposite sex ignores reality, just like a miscegenation law which could theoretically be defended on the grounds that a black person could enjoy the benefits of marriage if only he or she would stay within the African race to marry. The overwhelming evidence that homosexuality is not a choice puts the issue squarely in the same general category as sex or race.

Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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For all you supporters of Gay Marriage: What about polygamy? - 20/10/2012 12:02:06 AM 1381 Views
Legal rights. - 20/10/2012 12:14:10 AM 785 Views
It almost sounds like you are saying... - 20/10/2012 12:31:40 AM 756 Views
That is what I'm saying it. - 20/10/2012 01:07:50 AM 739 Views
Technically, privileges, not rights. - 20/10/2012 04:16:45 AM 741 Views
Sure - 20/10/2012 12:35:53 AM 673 Views
All for it... For adults over the age of 18. *NM* - 20/10/2012 01:18:04 AM 395 Views
What about it? - 20/10/2012 01:21:17 AM 742 Views
+1 *NM* - 20/10/2012 01:51:25 AM 428 Views
+2 *NM* - 20/10/2012 11:18:39 AM 379 Views
should be legal, would be nice for poly people. should include polygyny and polyandry. *NM* - 20/10/2012 03:29:05 AM 383 Views
poly people? - 20/10/2012 12:44:01 PM 713 Views
Government needs to stop legislating morality. So yes *NM* - 20/10/2012 03:36:37 AM 371 Views
That's a huge chunk of what government does. - 20/10/2012 04:35:45 PM 713 Views
That's not what I'm saying - 21/10/2012 03:21:08 AM 732 Views
So you're opposed to abortion and gun control then? Welcome aboard! - 21/10/2012 06:14:14 AM 682 Views
Why do you keep talking about gay marriage and polygamy in the same sentence.. - 20/10/2012 03:58:26 AM 756 Views
Get a grip. Your response is just what I tried to avoid. - 20/10/2012 04:33:40 AM 676 Views
The more fool you. - 21/10/2012 05:55:30 AM 771 Views
Ha! Point. *NM* - 20/10/2012 05:40:34 AM 570 Views
Marriage is always a choice, whatever the motive(s.) - 22/10/2012 04:00:40 PM 706 Views
I have no problem with polygamy being legal, but marriage is a privilege and can be limited to two. - 20/10/2012 04:16:08 AM 769 Views
The only problem with that is that it was established with a heterosexist assumption - 21/10/2012 06:33:32 AM 725 Views
From a legal perspective, all of your arguments are irrelevant - 21/10/2012 03:12:39 PM 833 Views
How would you argue for putting it in the same category as race? - 21/10/2012 04:28:12 PM 761 Views
I wouldn't put it in exactly the same category. - 21/10/2012 08:43:51 PM 771 Views
That limitation is still prejudicial and somewhat arbitrary. - 22/10/2012 04:25:25 PM 918 Views
I got no opinion on it. - 20/10/2012 12:51:43 PM 797 Views
The idea of a group marriage makes me uncomfortable - 20/10/2012 04:19:48 PM 681 Views
As long as it is equitable - 20/10/2012 05:55:57 PM 675 Views
The state shouldn't even recognize marriage beyond name changes anyway - 21/10/2012 03:52:40 AM 746 Views
Indeed - 21/10/2012 06:04:41 AM 805 Views
I don't give a damn what you call it. That's your business. - 21/10/2012 06:17:40 AM 1079 Views
And so? - 21/10/2012 07:05:08 AM 708 Views
Re: And so? - 21/10/2012 04:10:19 PM 876 Views
Legal contracts must be open to all consenting adults, or none. - 22/10/2012 03:11:55 PM 756 Views
You are correct, yet your reasoning is flawed. - 23/10/2012 03:20:25 PM 682 Views
Again, the Equal Protection Clause has far less force on private entities than on government. - 23/10/2012 03:52:06 PM 620 Views
Much less force, yes. - 23/10/2012 04:15:03 PM 623 Views
The crux is "If it's my business, it's my business." - 23/10/2012 04:43:25 PM 698 Views
+1 *NM* - 23/10/2012 07:36:46 PM 315 Views
No the analogy is not exact, nor legally the same... - 23/10/2012 07:33:25 PM 592 Views
Analogy is not equality, only similarity. - 24/10/2012 04:37:29 PM 788 Views
We aren't asking for something better or different. - 23/10/2012 04:27:04 PM 681 Views
yeah, it is very circular. - 23/10/2012 07:44:33 PM 715 Views

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