The only problem with that is that it was established with a heterosexist assumption
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 21/10/2012 06:33:32 AM
We traditionally say "rights" but marriage is, from a legal perspective, a privileged relationship in which the partners enjoy certain legal preferences that are not granted outside marriage. I think this is the key point that must be stressed, however, because the straw man argument that gay marriage will lead to polygamy, letting people marry animals, etc., is a flawed one. If we say that we have created a special legal status between two individuals, then same-sex couples have a claim that the way the privilege is set up is discriminatory.
It was set up to accommodate certain realities of heterosexual relationships, and the prevalence of the same. If heterosexual relationships were as common or inadvertently fertile as homosexual relationships, there would have been no need for marriage. It had little or nothing to do with the sentiment that has become associated with the practice.
This is an equal protection claim.
And equality is the status quo. Gays are not legally excluded from marriage to a person of the opposite gender so long as the other party consents, and same-sex marriages are every bit as unavailable to straight people. The proponents of same sex marriage seek to establish a novelty institution to service a sentimental interest of a narrow group, and to force the rest of society to recognize the same, regardless of their acceptance of that sentiment. Imagine if marriage were defined as "the legal union between one white man and one white woman" and you see the crux of the argument. The "rights" only come in when we look at the Constitutional right to equal protection under the law.
Not the same, because you are arbitrarily excluding groups due to invalid criteria. The fact that gay people don't want to marry the opposite sex does not mean they have the right to a compensatory privilege. That's like saying that since I choose not to avail myself of the privilege of driving a motor vehicle, I may instead choose to utilize the public roads in a different manner that will impede the ability of licensed drivers to use them for their proper function, such as by pushing a wheelbarrow down the fast lane of a major highway. You can make all specious arguments you want about my right to move goods by the fastest route available, or how environmentally superior my mode of transport is, but it does not change the fact that I am abusing something in an illegal manner and my desire to use a public institution in my own way does not grant me the right to do so. If, however, the privilege is set up as one for only two people, then people who say they have a polygamous relationship are not in a position to claim that they do not enjoy equal protection, because the relationship has been defined as a two-person relationship. After all, if we expand to three, we could expand to 100, or 10,000. So, consequently, we can create a privilege for two and exclude three (though we could just as easily allow it if we wanted to, without being obligated to on a Constitutional basis), but I don't think we can create a privilege for two and then set conditions on who the two people can be.
Because we did not JUST set it up for precisely two people, we set it up for two people of a particular gender proportion. In fact, that gender proportion is a more specific and generally followed rule than the aforementioned precise number.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
For all you supporters of Gay Marriage: What about polygamy?
20/10/2012 12:02:06 AM
- 1382 Views
Legal rights.
20/10/2012 12:14:10 AM
- 785 Views
should be legal, would be nice for poly people. should include polygyny and polyandry. *NM*
20/10/2012 03:29:05 AM
- 383 Views
Government needs to stop legislating morality. So yes *NM*
20/10/2012 03:36:37 AM
- 371 Views
That's a huge chunk of what government does.
20/10/2012 04:35:45 PM
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That's not what I'm saying
21/10/2012 03:21:08 AM
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So you're opposed to abortion and gun control then? Welcome aboard!
21/10/2012 06:14:14 AM
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Why do you keep talking about gay marriage and polygamy in the same sentence..
20/10/2012 03:58:26 AM
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Get a grip. Your response is just what I tried to avoid.
20/10/2012 04:33:40 AM
- 676 Views
The more fool you.
21/10/2012 05:55:30 AM
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This, and legal recognition of it, is precisely why marriage has become an Equal Protection issue.
22/10/2012 03:40:01 PM
- 706 Views
Because they are both violations of the paradigm of genuine marriage. Like it or not.
21/10/2012 05:49:32 AM
- 659 Views
I have no problem with polygamy being legal, but marriage is a privilege and can be limited to two.
20/10/2012 04:16:08 AM
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The only problem with that is that it was established with a heterosexist assumption
21/10/2012 06:33:32 AM
- 726 Views
From a legal perspective, all of your arguments are irrelevant
21/10/2012 03:12:39 PM
- 833 Views
This really is blatantly obvious, but still it might bear repeating...
21/10/2012 04:43:13 PM
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Yes, but only if its equal. Multi-people relationships should be more acceptable by society.
20/10/2012 05:15:24 AM
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"Polygamy" is the all-inclusive term; whether or not he meant it, he said it.
22/10/2012 04:31:09 PM
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I support autogamy in addition to various forms of exogenic relationships
20/10/2012 05:49:07 AM
- 700 Views
Have you seen the Glee episode where Sue Sylvester conducts a marriage of herself to herself? *NM*
20/10/2012 09:50:32 AM
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I am fine with it if all existing parties to the marriage consent to each addition.
20/10/2012 10:10:19 AM
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The case for polygamy has really weakened rather than strenghtened, you might say.
20/10/2012 03:53:34 PM
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I have no problem with it, but as Amy says, it's not really relevant. *NM*
20/10/2012 05:40:50 PM
- 397 Views
Legalize polygamy and create a familymaking process, but don't cover polygamy under marriage.
20/10/2012 10:14:58 PM
- 697 Views
The state shouldn't even recognize marriage beyond name changes anyway
21/10/2012 03:52:40 AM
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Indeed
21/10/2012 06:04:41 AM
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I don't give a damn what you call it. That's your business.
21/10/2012 06:17:40 AM
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And so?
21/10/2012 07:05:08 AM
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Re: And so?
21/10/2012 04:10:19 PM
- 876 Views
So can we call it garriage, give the same legal effect and call it good? *NM*
22/10/2012 03:28:33 AM
- 377 Views
According to your argument we could afford gay couples the same legal privileges...
22/10/2012 03:20:17 AM
- 640 Views
"...separate educational facilities are inherently unequal."
22/10/2012 04:45:31 PM
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That may well be the ideal solution. And also the most ironically amusing in how it would fail.
22/10/2012 07:35:05 PM
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We already went there and did that in '04, and yes, it was funny as f--k.
22/10/2012 09:51:49 PM
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Agreed in principle, but custody/cohabitation/assets go well beyond name change.
22/10/2012 04:37:09 PM
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This is the sort of thing that *needs* to be about principle
23/10/2012 04:54:10 AM
- 610 Views
Parental, property and other rights need government protection, and thus government involvement.
23/10/2012 05:14:37 AM
- 660 Views
Legal contracts must be open to all consenting adults, or none.
22/10/2012 03:11:55 PM
- 757 Views
You are correct, yet your reasoning is flawed.
23/10/2012 03:20:25 PM
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Again, the Equal Protection Clause has far less force on private entities than on government.
23/10/2012 03:52:06 PM
- 620 Views
Much less force, yes.
23/10/2012 04:15:03 PM
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The crux is "If it's my business, it's my business."
23/10/2012 04:43:25 PM
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Re: The crux is "If it's my business, it's my business."
23/10/2012 07:15:17 PM
- 640 Views
Like you said: By referring to "all invididuals" (or, better, "persons" or "citizens.")
24/10/2012 04:14:55 PM
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But we know very well that it doesn't have dire commercial consequences.
25/10/2012 07:17:55 PM
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I have several friends who practice polyamory, if they wanted to marry I would support it. *NM*
24/10/2012 06:47:58 PM
- 346 Views