Not the best analogy, though I agree with the sentiment.
Joel Send a noteboard - 19/10/2012 04:10:11 PM
DOMA (and homosexual marriage) is not an equal protections issue, no matter how many people try to claim it is. A hetrosexual and a homosexual have the exact same marriage privledge (it is not a "right" anyways). That is the definition of equal rights.
Just like a building with stairs is equally accessible to the handicapped and the able-bodied, because both of them can choose to walk up the stairs.
Homosexuals are not physically incapable of heterosexual marriage, after all. It denies their liberty of conscience, and offers few benefits in exchange for great discomfort and anxiety, but they are as legally and physically capable of marrying someone of the opposite sex as I am of sticking my hand in a blender. The issue is that it is patently discriminatory to say some consenting adults but not others may enter into a valid legal contract, that the same legal agreement can be valid OR invalid solely on the basis of sex.
I note once again that a better analogy would be to saying, "gun bans are not discriminatory because they affect owners and non-owners equally."" As I said to Burr, justifying a law by saying those unaffected by it are equally affects is nonsense. It continues to fascinate me how those on opposite sides of the gay marriage issue will quickly and deftly swap rationales on guns. BOTH sides simultaneously and totally flip-flopping is an amazing testament to cognitive dissonance. 2' />
Of course marriage is a right. It confers socioeconomic benefits and civil acceptance on the union of a couple.
That does not make it a right; the need for ancillary laws defining marriage privileges and protections demonstrates how little standing it has as an inalienable right. A drivers license confers socioeconomic benefits and civil acceptance, too, but that gives no one a RIGHT to one. However, the Equal Protection Clause requires all state laws equally apply to everyone under their jurisdiction, whether or not those laws pertain to rights. The critical RIGHT here is to equal protection under the law, not marriage; a state arbitrarily (i.e. without cause) granting some people drivers licenses but not others would violate the Equal Protection Clause every bit as much, even though there is no constitutional right to a drivers license. US law does not allow declaring competent adults second class citizens.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 19/10/2012 at 04:22:00 PM
2nd Circuit rules in favor of Edith Windsor. DOMA unconstitutional.
18/10/2012 08:37:12 PM
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Completely unsurprising since the Justice department refuses to defend the law.
18/10/2012 09:05:16 PM
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For a moment there I thought you were saying the Supreme Court had ruled it unconstitutional.
18/10/2012 09:10:16 PM
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Do you know if there's a case about DOMA and the "full faith and credit" clause?
18/10/2012 10:05:11 PM
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I don't know offhand, but my gchat friend will. If she pops on again, I'll ask her. But...
18/10/2012 10:37:09 PM
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I asked her about pending cases taking on Section 2. "None that I know of," she answered. *NM*
19/10/2012 12:46:21 AM
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I wonder about that one as well.
19/10/2012 12:39:54 AM
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Re: I wonder about that one as well.
19/10/2012 01:18:22 AM
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Either a ban discriminates against those affected more than those unaffected, or it does not.
19/10/2012 03:48:32 PM
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Gun control laws can equally affect everyone, though, is my point.
20/10/2012 10:52:41 PM
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I'm sure there is. The California case is likely to discuss it.
19/10/2012 02:48:02 PM
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I just have to note in passing that Ted Olsons memoires will make fascinating reading.
19/10/2012 04:44:15 PM
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Also, hooray! Let's hope SCOTUS adheres (if you use that term over there). *NM*
18/10/2012 10:59:14 PM
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As it should be; the DoMA was always a brazen affront to the Equal Protection Clause
19/10/2012 12:06:13 AM
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Not really
19/10/2012 02:16:04 PM
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That's such a stupid, puerile argument.
19/10/2012 03:47:26 PM
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Not the best analogy, though I agree with the sentiment.
19/10/2012 04:10:11 PM
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Then by the "legal argument" you all propose I should have the "right" to marry a spoon...
19/10/2012 05:48:32 PM
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if your spoon or dog is capable of making power of attorney decisions then by all means do so *NM*
19/10/2012 06:41:43 PM
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How about I "marry" a corporation then. THAT is how stupid the entire arguement is. *NM*
19/10/2012 07:25:13 PM
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provide for us a legal reason why marrying a corporation should be recognized by the US gov't
19/10/2012 08:09:08 PM
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The argument above was that there was no jsutification it should not, thus it should be allowed.
19/10/2012 10:57:16 PM
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you are only offering your own emotional take on a legal decision there is no logic in your posts
19/10/2012 11:12:17 PM
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Wrong. I do not have an emotional stake in this, I am simply using logic. *NM*
22/10/2012 03:59:08 PM
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saying you should be able to marry a spoon or corporation is not logical reasoning. try again *NM*
22/10/2012 06:19:29 PM
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EXACTLY, and that was the point I was making. Congratualtions for figuring that out. *NM*
22/10/2012 11:34:46 PM
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you are obviously using some humpty dumpty definition of "logic" then *NM*
22/10/2012 11:40:12 PM
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No, you apparently failed reading comprehension in school.
23/10/2012 03:08:44 PM
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#1: fuck you. #2: you are still not using logic
23/10/2012 05:50:14 PM
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Ah yes, the fuck you argument... the height of all intelectual persuits... and you call ME emotional
23/10/2012 06:47:21 PM
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i see -- it's ok to be insulting as long as the "f-bomb" is not used. got it.
23/10/2012 10:27:54 PM
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Another good example of how corporations aren't the same as people. *NM*
19/10/2012 10:07:32 PM
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Would you be the bride? Would you wear white?
20/10/2012 07:58:52 PM
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You have obviously not read my posts very carefully
22/10/2012 04:23:22 PM
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Ah, the "I have Gay Friends" argument.
22/10/2012 09:33:41 PM
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No, I am not, try reading everything I have written on the subject before jumping to conclusions.
22/10/2012 11:41:05 PM
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It was only a matter of time.
19/10/2012 02:49:21 PM
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I do not understand why fundamentalists demand government dictate religion.
19/10/2012 03:22:54 PM
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Which is why the entire method of legal attack being mounted is dumb.
19/10/2012 05:53:12 PM
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the only ones forcing their beliefs down everyone's throats are people like yourself
19/10/2012 06:44:57 PM
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There is no right being denied...
19/10/2012 07:22:24 PM
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that is bullshit and you know it. or, alternatively, you do not understand legality in any way
19/10/2012 08:06:54 PM
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Re: that is bullshit and you know it. or, alternatively, you do not understand legality in any way
19/10/2012 11:11:55 PM
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nobody is arguing the legal right to marry, they are arguing about the legal rights marriage gives
19/10/2012 11:37:14 PM
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There are no "marriage rights" NONE, zip, ziltch, nada...
22/10/2012 04:18:15 PM
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why bother settling custody in a divorce then if there are no "marriage rights"?
22/10/2012 06:38:14 PM
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You are making one, huge factual mistake that is screwing up your entire argument:
20/10/2012 11:00:28 PM
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