The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies
Tom Send a noteboard - 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM
So we know that it existed c. 200 AD from physical evidence. According to the official Brill publication of the Nag Hammadi corpus (which is probably the most rigorous treatment of the subject), Hippolytus and Origen cite it, and Mani used it in developing his religion. Tatian probably used it as a source in the Diatessaron, and Clement of Alexandria quoted Saying 2 from the Gospel of Thomas in the Stromata (5.14.96).
The Diatessaron was dated to 160-170 AD, and the Stromata was a bit later. But it's almost impossible they would cite things that "just came out".
The Diatessaron was dated to 160-170 AD, and the Stromata was a bit later. But it's almost impossible they would cite things that "just came out".
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds...
- 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM
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That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM*
- 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM
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What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church.
- 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM
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Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride"
- 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM
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What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God?
- 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM
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BRIDE
- 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM
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I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. 
*NM*
- 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM
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*NM*
- 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM
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That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride.
- 20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM
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It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well.
- 20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM
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The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment.
- 20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM
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Two things why it is important
- 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM
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Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really?
- 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM
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Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy?
- 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM
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I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better.
- 20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM
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It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical.
- 20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM
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The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation.
- 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM
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I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities.
- 21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM
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There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD:
- 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM
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The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD.
- 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM
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What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it?
- 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM
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The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies
- 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM
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I would buy 200 AD, of course.
- 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM
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It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point.
- 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM
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Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD.
- 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM
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I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors.
- 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM
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Not even Mark or Luke?
- 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM
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Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek
- 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM
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True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice.
- 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM
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Some people did "lie big".
- 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM
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I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter.
- 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM
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I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but...
- 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM
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I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though.
- 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM
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The Gnostic response would be:
- 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM
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That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence.
- 25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM
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The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long.
- 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
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What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition?
- 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM
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Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago.
- 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM
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Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well
- 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM
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Let's not get started on Funk
- 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM
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don't these people have anything better to do?
- 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM
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Clearly not.
- 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM
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