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Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy? Joel Send a noteboard - 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM
They will conclude (if they hear about this) that Jesus was married, that Dan Brown was right, that there is a Templar group keeping His descendants alive, and so on in that manner.

It is that last part that gets me in conjunction with my understanding of Daniels "Seventy Weeks," specifically the part of Daniel 9:26 the KJV renders as "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself...." I always understood that (rightly or not) to mean the Messiah would have no heirs, which would mean either 1) the gnostics are full of crap when they talk about Jesus having kids or 2) Jesus was not the Messiah and the whole discussion is pointless. However, I realize (too well) I am not a Hebrew or Aramaic scholar, so my understanding of the passage could be badly in error. Is it?
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So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds... Tom - 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM 1302 Views
That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM* TaskmasterJack - 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM 582 Views
What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church. Joel - 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM 937 Views
Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride" Tom - 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM 909 Views
What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God? Joel - 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM 882 Views
BRIDE Tom - 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM 870 Views
I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. *NM* Rebekah - 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM 434 Views
That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride. Joel - 20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM 943 Views
It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM 881 Views
The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM 919 Views
No, the fragment is either Gnostic or a forgery. Tom - 20/09/2012 11:28:53 PM 868 Views
Fair enough; for my money it could easily be both. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:10:57 AM 819 Views
Two things why it is important Roland00 - 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM 859 Views
Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really? Tom - 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM 948 Views
Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy? Joel - 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM 859 Views
I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better. Tom - 20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM 815 Views
It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM 897 Views
The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation. Tom - 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM 833 Views
I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM 905 Views
It says nothing about the Septuagint variant reading, though. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:35:51 AM 837 Views
Hmm, you are right; uncharacteristically disappointing. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:16:51 AM 914 Views
There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD: Joel - 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM 821 Views
The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM 812 Views
What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it? Joel - 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM 890 Views
The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies Tom - 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM 807 Views
I would buy 200 AD, of course. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM 870 Views
It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM 842 Views
Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM 859 Views
I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM 773 Views
Not even Mark or Luke? Joel - 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM 814 Views
Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek Tom - 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM 759 Views
True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice. Joel - 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM 822 Views
Some people did "lie big". Tom - 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM 846 Views
I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter. Joel - 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM 926 Views
I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but... Tom - 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM 889 Views
I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though. Joel - 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM 864 Views
The Gnostic response would be: Tom - 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM 788 Views
That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence. Joel - 25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM 941 Views
The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long. Tom - 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 779 Views
This thread seems an ideal place, but OK. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:34:28 AM 911 Views
What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition? Larry - 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM 886 Views
Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM 843 Views
Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well Larry - 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM 985 Views
Let's not get started on Funk Tom - 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM 777 Views
So true Larry - 22/09/2012 10:23:08 PM 884 Views
Bentley Layton at Yale is a noted scholar who did translations. Tom - 22/09/2012 10:47:05 PM 813 Views
don't these people have anything better to do? Yunalesca - 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM 818 Views
Clearly not. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM 721 Views
then i'll escape this thread before anyone twigs Yunalesca - 22/09/2012 08:12:37 PM 890 Views
Too late, I have already twigged, branched and treed. Joel - 22/09/2012 08:58:39 PM 865 Views
I know! Camilla - 21/09/2012 06:48:33 AM 995 Views
See, Tom, you made a mistake. jh - 22/09/2012 10:25:22 AM 852 Views
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