Put some skin in the game and then you get a voice.
The odd thing is I know no liberal who would support, would not strongly condemn, the approach most appealing to me: Reinstate the draft, letting folks opt out at the cost of voting rights. Curiously, neither side debating "European style socialisms" merits ever mentions that conscription (at least of men) is the European norm.
We took the wrong lesson from Vietnam: Not that the prospect of EVERYONES kid being sent to war means we should carefully consider every potential war and only accept it as a last resort, but that we should have a volunteer military so the nation cheers on every war for any reason or none, because combat is reserved for "those who want to be there." As you surely know, many who volunteered to defend our country with their lives consider the Iraq invasion as pointless as I do, but American soldiers fight where they are told and win where they fight, even when they feel the whole exercise a tremendous waste of time, money, equipment and lives.
There is nothing wrong with being well read and everyone should learn as much as they can the problem comes with thinking someone is an expert on an issue simply because they know a lot of facts about it. It isn't just the intelligencia look at ESPN, they have a lot of "experts" who can name ever starter in the NFL which school they went to and how they ranked on fantasy football points but they have about the same odds as you or I of picking the next Super Bowl champion so their opinion really doesn't have any more value. The over selling of their value and the idea that their self appointed expertise somehow trumps any argument simply because they are experts.
Being informed does not ensure one is right, but is usually a prerequisite, because being uninformed often makes one wrong. Within sports and other media in the age of infotainment, it is important to remember the role of sensationalism for ratings; if Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith never disagreed their show would be quite boring. More importantly, controversial statements viscerally engage audiences and encourage them to tune in and watch the fallout. Fox does not bring Alan Colmes on to inform viewers or disseminate liberal perspectives, but to be Sean Hannitys whipping boy and, vicariously, their audiences.
Within academia, it comes down to whether one believes universities mere paper mills or institutions that take credibility (and thus marketability) seriously enough not to rubber stamp every idiot who can pay for a diploma. The first is debatable within liberal arts, but absurd for technical disciplines. Aircraft/buildings do not regularly crash/collapse due to design by unqualified engineers/architects. Once again, fact is not subjective. Speaking of which...
Look at your argument about fact checkers as an example, you thought your arguments won regardless of the actual fact simply because some journalist who had been sprinkled with magic factchecker fairy dust agreed with you.
I know my argument won because the plant closing before Obama took office is incontrovertible fact, and the proof is Walker stated it just as unambiguously (more so, actually) as did the fact checker I cited. It does not matter whom we ask unless they just lie about the factual record: The plant was gone before Obama arrived, and the jobs lost thus independent of his in/actions. He can be blamed for another of the fantastic impossible promises that typified his 2008 campaign, but nothing else. Blaming him for the jobs lost requires Republicans advocate the very thing they caustically (but falsely) accused him of: Nationalizing and running GM.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 02/09/2012 at 06:30:24 PM
Anybody here ever studied the founding fathers of America?
30/08/2012 07:34:28 PM
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Slave-owning, mysoginist, wig-wearing members of the landed elite?
30/08/2012 07:51:33 PM
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No, never, not even briefly.
30/08/2012 07:57:39 PM
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What? Nooooo way
30/08/2012 08:06:30 PM
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My US history class was an hour long and I always got distracted by a butterfly or something.
30/08/2012 08:50:39 PM
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Did you just kinda compare yourself to the founding fathers?
30/08/2012 08:08:40 PM
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Not positively, but I have often thought they were a bad influence on me.
30/08/2012 08:21:48 PM
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Funny, my reaction to sentences like those is nearly the opposite.
30/08/2012 08:11:34 PM
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Fair point; it is revealing that none of the Bill of Rights amendments have multiple sections.
30/08/2012 08:39:24 PM
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You're projecting. *NM*
31/08/2012 12:48:12 AM
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I am aspiring.
31/08/2012 01:09:40 AM
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As a personal aside ...
31/08/2012 01:43:45 AM
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Like I say, maybe I invest too much in online posting.
31/08/2012 02:02:58 AM
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Re:
31/08/2012 02:27:00 AM
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Re: Re:
31/08/2012 02:37:35 AM
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Well
31/08/2012 02:54:25 AM
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It does get repetitive too often.
31/08/2012 05:07:41 AM
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Doesn't really matter. You're gonna keep doing it.
31/08/2012 05:16:23 AM
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I did. They smelled of mahogany and death. They looked scabby and skeletal.
31/08/2012 12:35:44 AM
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Don't forget Hamilton! The creator of the American economy..... *NM*
31/08/2012 05:19:50 AM
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... and big government.
01/09/2012 01:54:20 PM
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I don't really buy that.....
01/09/2012 08:33:28 PM
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Hamilton loudly and often advocated a central bank, national debt and active federal government.
01/09/2012 08:41:50 PM
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I think the entire Age of Enlightenment is fascinating
31/08/2012 06:32:23 PM
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You realize you just made a great argument for intelligentsia rule, right?
01/09/2012 01:48:58 PM
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I would want better intelligenstia first
01/09/2012 02:48:28 PM
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Ah, the old uneducated>miseducated argument.
01/09/2012 03:39:07 PM
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*wonders if we could test*
02/09/2012 02:45:10 PM
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no there is a better reason why it wouldn't work
02/09/2012 02:58:18 PM
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I listen to some of supposed intellectuals talk and I am unimpressed
02/09/2012 02:53:21 PM
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Being well read does not make one smart, but does facilitate it to a great degree.
02/09/2012 04:32:05 PM
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I like the Starship Trooper approach
02/09/2012 05:04:17 PM
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I run very hot and cold on that one.
02/09/2012 06:28:44 PM
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What was that again about "you have a right to your own opinion, not your own facts"?
03/09/2012 06:39:01 PM
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Ah, right; I had forgotten our previous discussion of conscriptions termination in the '90s and '00s
03/09/2012 06:48:28 PM
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If you worked with more engineers you might change your opinion on the science degree part
04/09/2012 03:00:16 PM
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Maybe; I would likely just conclude horse sense is uncommon everywhere, but less so in engineers.
05/09/2012 12:11:58 AM
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