Stating opinions as fact invites checking them as facts.
Joel Send a noteboard - 01/09/2012 02:59:23 PM
They hit Romney for stating Obama went on an apology tour after taking office and their “fact” was he never said actually "I'm sorry". He went on the tour and many Americans felt that in affect his was apologizing for America and considered it an apology tour. That opinion really is not open to fact checking. He was out there trying to undo he felt Bush had done by in effect apologizing for the last eight years of US foreign policy. The man bowed to the Japanese emperor and made theater out hitting the reset button with Russia. I don't need a fact checker to tell me he went on an apology tour because I watched it happen.
If they were only concerned about the facts then they would have no problem with what Ryan said about the GM plant because it was all factually true but in their OPINION he was implying that the plant was shut down after Obama took office. Once again a fact that happens to be true and they ignore the fact that after making those states and then buying GM with tax payer money Obama went ahead and closed the plant. But either way Obama said with government assistance that would be open for 100 years and then after spending billions of tax payers’ dollars they stayed closed so Obama's statements and his failure to backup what he said is fact even if the OPINION of some fact checkers Ryan was being misleading but they ignore the FACT that Obama did tell those the plant would stay open if the government helped and the government helped and the plant closed down. Obama was the one being misleading and Ryan calling him on that is legitimate even if he didn’t lay out the whole story.
If they were only concerned about the facts then they would have no problem with what Ryan said about the GM plant because it was all factually true but in their OPINION he was implying that the plant was shut down after Obama took office. Once again a fact that happens to be true and they ignore the fact that after making those states and then buying GM with tax payer money Obama went ahead and closed the plant. But either way Obama said with government assistance that would be open for 100 years and then after spending billions of tax payers’ dollars they stayed closed so Obama's statements and his failure to backup what he said is fact even if the OPINION of some fact checkers Ryan was being misleading but they ignore the FACT that Obama did tell those the plant would stay open if the government helped and the government helped and the plant closed down. Obama was the one being misleading and Ryan calling him on that is legitimate even if he didn’t lay out the whole story.
Calling Obamas foreign diplomatic efforts an "apology tour," stating it as fact, makes checking the statements factual accuracy legitimate; the claim does not pass scrutiny and should therefore not be presented as fact. Likewise, the Janesville GM plant was ordered closed before Obama ever took office; he can be criticized for subsequent promises no president could keep, but its closure is no more his fault than the Bay of Pigs invasion is. Saying, "Obama went ahead and closed the plant," is absurd, because the feds NON-VOTING shares granted NO voice in GM operations: Obama closed nothing, which would be true regardless of the closure date.
The fact checkers did their job, better than Ryans; if you object to them exposing false claims as just that, tell your candidates to stop making false claims.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 01/09/2012 at 03:02:45 PM
how to make political convention speeches more entertaining
31/08/2012 03:57:11 PM
- 583 Views
and how fact checks the fact checkers? *NM*
31/08/2012 05:19:45 PM
- 199 Views
Fox, presumably.
31/08/2012 06:05:56 PM
- 672 Views
the fact checkers tend be journalist and deserve all the trust that goes with that *NM*
01/09/2012 10:36:18 AM
- 223 Views
Facts are facts, and not in the eye of the beholder.
01/09/2012 12:08:41 PM
- 425 Views
That might be true if fat checkers limited themsleves to facts and not opinion
01/09/2012 02:44:41 PM
- 502 Views
Stating opinions as fact invites checking them as facts.
01/09/2012 02:59:23 PM
- 636 Views
I will let Scott Wlaker explain it to you
01/09/2012 05:56:00 PM
- 614 Views
Even Walker admits "It’s closed — has been as long as Obama has been president."
01/09/2012 06:27:32 PM
- 601 Views
well since Ryan never claimed Obama caused the plant to close it doesn't matter when it closed
01/09/2012 08:10:26 PM
- 434 Views
How could he save a plant already closed?
01/09/2012 08:31:55 PM
- 419 Views
It's obvious.
01/09/2012 10:12:33 PM
- 485 Views
what is obvious is despite him saying they would his policies didn't save the plant
02/09/2012 09:48:08 PM
- 411 Views
If he could save it he shouldn't have he could but he did say he could
02/09/2012 09:43:56 PM
- 448 Views
The video says his comments were 2 Feb, 2008, when the plant was open;when he took office it was not
02/09/2012 10:26:46 PM
- 406 Views
Then what would Daily Show and Colbert do every night if someone does their work for them? *NM*
31/08/2012 09:38:17 PM
- 209 Views
presumably they would have plenty of other material to work with.... *NM*
01/09/2012 06:33:33 AM
- 229 Views
I loathe the conventions, but this will make it worse
01/09/2012 03:52:15 AM
- 464 Views
you're talking about what people who already follow these things do
01/09/2012 06:40:42 AM
- 409 Views
We fundamentally disagree
01/09/2012 01:54:26 PM
- 602 Views
The absence of either filter or rebuttal diminishes the informative value of conventions.
01/09/2012 03:21:03 PM
- 482 Views