Active Users:1216 Time:23/11/2024 07:16:19 AM
Not voting sends no message but "we will let politicians do as they please." Joel Send a noteboard - 12/08/2012 05:12:55 PM
A complete an utter moron.

I'm not saying you have to vote for Romney or any other candidate, but voting for another 4 years of failure is ridiculous.

I am proud to say that I didn't vote for anyone in 2004. Don't be afraid to sit one out if the only option is to vote for the least bad candidate.

Anyone who complains about government without voting is beneath consideration: Your opinion is, by choice, irrelevant, except as a loud annoying distraction for those with sufficient civic duty to exercise self government. As the saying goes, "lead, follow, or get out of the way."

There is nothing wrong with not choosing a candidate for President when both are imbeciles (as in 2004). Our nation voting for "the lesser of two evils" over and over has come to the synthesis of our modern, flip-flopping ineffective Presidential candidates more concerned with polls and what people might think than living and dying by the side of core beliefs. I will be the first to admit that voting for Obama in 2008 was the wrong choice. I eat my crow. But, there was NO way I was going to vote for McCain. So yes, in hindsight, I should NOT have voted for either or anybody for that matter (as all the third party candidates are pretty much useless). To denigrate somebody for doing that is to take away his or her voice. If everybody would grow the set needed to say NO and the turnout for the Presidential election was something ridiculously low like 30% then maybe it would wake politicians up and tell them they had better change their tune.
So, just quit with your self-righteous "civic duty" bullshit.I and many other people are turned off by the sweet choice of Obama or Romney or, ooooh... maybe Nader will jump into the fray again. Or, maybe we can make a real statement by getting Lyndon LaRouche one tenth of one percent of the vote! Third party candidates... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

There are good arguments for strategically choosing the lesser of two evils, or choosing a third party to vote ones conscience and/or as a protest against the two major parties. There is NO argument for not voting at all, because it accomplishes, can accomplish, NOTHING. I did not "take away his voice:" HE did. Sure, trzaska has raised a lot of Hell since 2008 (and previously,) but it is sound and fury signifying nothing.

The proof is 30% turnout would not be "ridiculously low." In a midterm, it would only be a few points below average (midterm turnout has not reached 40% in my lifetime.) It would be a significant drop for a presidential election, yes, but only mean hyper-partisans decided it. Neither they nor their candidates mind that; many prefer it, and, despite regular references to independent/moderate voters, returns and resulting policy suggest elections already work that way (to the extent they work.)

I hate to break this to you, but as long as you take it for granted each election has a maximum of two viable candidates, neither has any incentive to take the risky chance of offering you or anyone anything: They need only make the alternative too toxically unappealing for anyone to accept. Staying home does not exactly encourage them to reach out to you; their focus is (rightly) those who actually vote. As previously noted, Dems have been trying to transform non-voters into voters since the early '70s; 2008 was the first time it worked, and more because of Bushs unpopularity than anything Dems did. 70% of the country voting for no one would just tell the two major parties no one is minding the store; 70% of the country voting for third parties would send them a far more potent message (i.e. pink slips.)

So yes, voting is, in addition to a right for which countless American soldiers have selflessly died, civic duty in any participatory democracy. Everyone who denies their own voice in choosing their government has no business complaining about the government they let the rest of us choose for them. If they do not like it, they have repeated chances to do something about it every two years in November; it is no ones fault but their own if they do not.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
That showed 'em (they can do whatever they like with impunity.)
This message last edited by Joel on 12/08/2012 at 05:37:57 PM
Reply to message
Paul Ryan is selected as Republican VP candidate - 11/08/2012 05:01:47 PM 1764 Views
Personally? No, I'm not voting Republican at all this year. - 11/08/2012 05:18:06 PM 804 Views
Ya know that narrative of the right getting further right is pretty ridicolous - 11/08/2012 06:43:44 PM 772 Views
it could possibly be the "all or nothing" budget fights and gay marriage among other things - 11/08/2012 08:19:11 PM 812 Views
Yeah, I forgot the Dems are very enlightened about gay marriage now for what? 2 Months? - 11/08/2012 08:59:17 PM 866 Views
+1 - Great post! *NM* - 12/08/2012 04:32:21 AM 504 Views
We're on a roll here Isaac. I agree with you again. - 12/08/2012 08:18:32 AM 819 Views
yet despite that, dems didn't put referenda and push bills discriminating against gay people - 12/08/2012 07:55:38 PM 893 Views
They certainly have, they've just done it less and less recently - 12/08/2012 09:39:53 PM 768 Views
Fred Phelps is 82 - 13/08/2012 01:28:01 AM 711 Views
So is Pat Robertson *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:41:28 AM 479 Views
They're not enlightened at all. - 21/08/2012 02:04:09 PM 979 Views
Agreed, but ya'll continue doing it anyway. - 11/08/2012 08:24:09 PM 805 Views
Thank you for making sense. - 12/08/2012 08:01:53 AM 775 Views
voting third party is a good idea - 11/08/2012 08:15:41 PM 789 Views
I'm sorry, but anyone that votes for Obama after the past 3 and 1/2 years is a moron..... - 12/08/2012 03:30:47 AM 715 Views
If you are proud of not voting, please shut up: The adults have a country to run. - 12/08/2012 04:11:49 AM 737 Views
Candidates have to earn my vote - I'm not a slave like you to the 2 party system. - 12/08/2012 04:24:02 AM 878 Views
Who said anything about the two-party system? - 12/08/2012 04:29:36 AM 710 Views
No offense intended, but voting third party is as stupid as not voting. - 12/08/2012 04:42:28 AM 960 Views
I strongly disagree. - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM 797 Views
as the saying goes "the lesser of two evils is still evil" - 12/08/2012 08:06:20 PM 783 Views
Nice asshatery. - 12/08/2012 07:56:57 AM 953 Views
Wouldn't you love to have a "none of the above" option..... - 12/08/2012 03:36:54 PM 726 Views
Or you could use a PR system and act like responsible adults. *NM* - 12/08/2012 05:47:14 PM 388 Views
Not voting sends no message but "we will let politicians do as they please." - 12/08/2012 05:12:55 PM 1151 Views
Oh dear. - 11/08/2012 06:26:07 PM 767 Views
I'm happy with it, I like Ryan - 11/08/2012 06:47:21 PM 788 Views
What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM 909 Views
Re: What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:51:12 PM 881 Views
ryan isn't going to help rmoney win wisconsin - 11/08/2012 08:21:27 PM 883 Views
Picking Ryan was an olive branch to the GOP rank and file. - 11/08/2012 08:05:41 PM 1001 Views
definitely a bold pick but not going to help him enough in november - 11/08/2012 08:27:59 PM 813 Views
Who cares? He's hot. - 11/08/2012 11:53:42 PM 973 Views
So are you a fan of David Cameron? - 12/08/2012 12:12:50 AM 644 Views
Lol. Nice one. *NM* - 12/08/2012 08:22:01 AM 439 Views
- 13/08/2012 03:31:38 PM 855 Views
Wonderful choice! Truly wonderful.....check the video. - 12/08/2012 03:22:48 AM 709 Views
Nice video. - 12/08/2012 06:52:59 PM 812 Views
Can you explain your fascination with Ryans ideas, please? - 13/08/2012 04:08:35 AM 765 Views
No, it doesn't change my opinion any - 12/08/2012 07:50:21 AM 895 Views
I hear even the DNC has rejected its TN Senate nominee. - 12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM 804 Views
Yes, they disavowed him - 12/08/2012 08:00:33 PM 799 Views
Does not work in the US - 13/08/2012 01:17:58 AM 755 Views
We do not need most of the populace to cast protest votes, only most voters. - 13/08/2012 01:33:41 AM 716 Views
Your distinction misses my greater point - 13/08/2012 01:51:26 AM 764 Views
*shrugs* Vote absentee then. - 13/08/2012 02:28:32 AM 787 Views
I was going to vote Romney anyway, so no, it doesn't change anything. - 12/08/2012 10:39:15 PM 795 Views
But I'm guessing you're glad with Ryan? Prefer him over the alternatives? Or not? - 12/08/2012 10:49:35 PM 954 Views
I disagree - 13/08/2012 12:52:07 AM 817 Views
Bloomberg has imploded - 13/08/2012 07:12:56 PM 717 Views
Bloomberg has become a national laughingstock. - 13/08/2012 08:13:24 PM 806 Views
Not as much as either Obama or Romney, surely. - 13/08/2012 08:23:41 PM 793 Views
Makes sense for you. You are Romney's target audience. - 13/08/2012 01:19:26 PM 729 Views
What should Obama have done? - 13/08/2012 07:31:23 PM 759 Views
And how much of that do you expect from Romney? - 14/08/2012 10:21:33 AM 1085 Views
Certainly more than from Obama. - 16/08/2012 12:00:19 AM 698 Views
Mmm, Objectivism. Another reason for me to vote Obama. - 12/08/2012 11:00:34 PM 879 Views
But doesn't he say he detests Rand? - 12/08/2012 11:53:47 PM 622 Views
Link to audio of Paul Ryans address to The Atlas Society. - 13/08/2012 03:37:27 AM 924 Views
Or you could have just read my response which posted prior to yours - 13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM 694 Views
Sorry, I completely missed your link. - 13/08/2012 03:09:11 PM 818 Views
Don't get me wrong - 13/08/2012 12:53:10 AM 734 Views
Actually I believe he promised to vote for Romney if I did - 13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM 875 Views
What an amusing retrospective. - 13/08/2012 04:20:02 AM 889 Views
Uh... how exactly did you get to spending and budget timelines? - 13/08/2012 04:59:45 AM 719 Views
Tangentially, of course. - 13/08/2012 05:08:18 AM 756 Views
I tried reading it again, but my eyes glazed over when you started babbling about lesbian covens. - 14/08/2012 12:30:03 AM 666 Views
It was a hyperbolic reference to the extreme left (one stolen from Matt Groening, btw.) - 14/08/2012 10:12:09 AM 736 Views
Interesting. - 14/08/2012 11:34:30 AM 807 Views
They have a pill for that now. - 14/08/2012 01:14:39 PM 847 Views
I'm pretty sure the solution is you learning elementary composition. *NM* - 15/08/2012 11:33:57 PM 511 Views
Your willful reading incomprehension is neither my fault nor problem. - 16/08/2012 07:40:46 PM 802 Views
I don't think you can succinctly do anything. *NM* - 16/08/2012 09:33:38 PM 519 Views
I just did. - 16/08/2012 09:36:21 PM 794 Views
EDIT: ACK! Hoist on my own petard! - 14/08/2012 12:25:27 AM 745 Views
No birth control, no right to choose, no planned parenthood? - 13/08/2012 01:58:51 PM 668 Views
They are really doing a public service that way. *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:26:39 PM 357 Views
I agree with your statements - 14/08/2012 12:53:41 AM 889 Views
It's mostly nonsense - 14/08/2012 04:46:11 AM 796 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 02:54:06 PM 1009 Views
'Nonsense' refers to the thing said about the religious right by the media - 14/08/2012 04:01:47 PM 1001 Views
I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 14/08/2012 06:30:23 PM 1053 Views
Re: I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 15/08/2012 01:45:59 AM 751 Views
I have to keep this short, because I am on the iPad. - 15/08/2012 05:38:48 AM 711 Views
Triple reply chain is usually a good point for the trim-edit anyway - 15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM 897 Views
Or shows it's time to quit. - 15/08/2012 10:20:17 PM 1104 Views
Agreed - 15/08/2012 10:54:05 PM 669 Views
The question, as for Tom, is what you believe Romney would improve for small businesses. - 14/08/2012 01:38:29 PM 830 Views
I am aware of that, thank you. And I don't distill my choice down to small business, either. - 14/08/2012 02:24:24 PM 880 Views
I see your point, but... - 14/08/2012 02:30:22 PM 651 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 03:09:18 PM 835 Views
Are you really going to let Obama con you into voting for him again? - 21/08/2012 02:00:06 PM 657 Views
I honestly haven't decided. - 21/08/2012 04:13:44 PM 1027 Views
None of that is that important. - 14/08/2012 08:53:10 PM 831 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 15/08/2012 02:21:55 PM 475 Views
Bullshit - 21/08/2012 01:46:42 PM 851 Views
This makes me more likely to vote R this year. - 15/08/2012 02:31:06 PM 747 Views

Reply to Message