You can make the argument that if normal people armed with guns they can stop shooters but it doesn't really work with the situation in the Colorado movie theater.
'Normal people' are actually not the majority of conceal carry owners. I know tons of them, most are serious gun enthusiasts and great shots, and at least half the ones I know are ex-military, had parents who were police or military, are spouses of cops, etc. Roughly 1 in 30 people in Ohio have concealed carry permits now, and the number has been rising sharply for the last three years, more than doubling. So don't assume had people been allowed to bring guns in to the theater it would be a decent-ish chance 1 person might have had one, think more like there's have been a 2-4% chance any given person there would have, with odds of a crowded 1-200 person showing of a movie that by R-rating mostly would have adults putting it at anywhere from 2-10 armed persons.
1) The movie theater was dark for this occurred during a movie. Furthermore it happened in the first 15 minutes of the movie so people's eyes hadn't completely adjusted to reduced lighting. Thus it would have been hard to target the shooter and just as likely to shoot someone else.
Not ideal but hardly bad shooting conditions, if you can see the person, you can shoot them. People described him in accurate detail, more than enough to draw a bead.
2) The shooter used tear gas which besides being an irritant is another vision reducer.
I really doubt most people even were effected by the tear gas, a theater is a big spot with a lot of volume, and again, if you can see him, you can shoot him, and they saw him. Quick note though, movie tear gas is not real life tear gas, about the only times it terribly fucks you up is prolonged exposure when it really starts sticking to you and your various internal bits, or when the dosage is massively concentrated. I've been tear gassed a disgusting number of times, I can't think of it ever impacting my visions worse than a bad day of allergies... which I definitely have had to put up with on gun ranges since some of those places are pollen death traps and once the dust and gunsmoke starts kicking in... yuck. I really doubt anyone who wasn't with a couple yards of the canisters got more than 'allergy level' effect, not even severe, tear gas goes right with concentration, a 10x10x10 unventilated room is going to be absolute suck if you throw a canister in, a 20x20x20 would be 1/8th the suck. One say 50 wide by 100 long by 25 high, a fairly small theater, the effects is going to 1% of that original case... except that theaters have really good ventilation. And that's not a big theater, in fact it's one that not going to have any spots in it that qualify as a hard shot with a pistol.
3) The shooter was wearing a kelvar vest thus even if someone got a lucky shot on the shooter there is a good chance he wouldn't have gone down.
Kevlar vest only protect the stuff right under it. So the gun in front of you, the hands holding it, your head, your groin, your forearm holding the gun or not, your thighs... also kevlar ain't that reliable. More, getting hit while in one, if your're not braced and ready for it, is going to feel like someone walking up to shake you hand fisted you in the gut instead. It is going to feel like a major league pitcher just bounced one of you. BEsides the fact that most people duck and flinch when being fired at, even when missed, which generally makes them shoot less, and that body amror doesn't cover you everywhere and isn't 100%, every bullet it going to feel like someone clocked you one.
This was not a simple situation, adding more guns to the situation would not have made the situation more messy not less. This is not a convenience store with good visibility.
Well it wasn't simple, but more guns would almost certainly have made things better. You're wrong, anyone saying it is wrong, and any 'expert' saying it needs to be asked 'does that include you?' and if they say yes they need firing. A crowded theater is not place for a firefight, but that only applies to hostage situations, if the bastard is gleefully shooting everyone then a firefight will almost certainly reduce casualties even if the shooter isn't killed or wounded.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Do you have strong feelings/opinions about gun control?
25/07/2012 05:48:56 AM
- 1326 Views
Kind of?
25/07/2012 05:59:39 AM
- 770 Views
Agreed
25/07/2012 06:20:44 AM
- 616 Views
Re: Agreed
25/07/2012 06:29:16 AM
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A lot of people are uncomfortable about homsexuality. Let's ban that too.
25/07/2012 09:26:46 PM
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I'm pro-guns, but I don't think I have strong feelings about anything
25/07/2012 07:36:31 AM
- 685 Views
Pretty strong (as someone born, raised and living outside the US)
25/07/2012 11:23:52 AM
- 757 Views
Inevitable thread, but mostly I feel people enters this debate without knowing enough about guns
25/07/2012 02:05:12 PM
- 893 Views
I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry.
25/07/2012 02:47:05 PM
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Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry.
25/07/2012 03:00:07 PM
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Re:
25/07/2012 03:30:44 PM
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My dad's gun were stolen and the police said they didn't need to even take fingerprints
25/07/2012 06:58:36 PM
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I understand, but you probably should if time permits
25/07/2012 03:49:49 PM
- 900 Views
It is unlikely to, for a while.
25/07/2012 10:37:30 PM
- 783 Views
Oh, but you have time to read Cannoli though
26/07/2012 01:10:50 AM
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... his was shorter?
26/07/2012 02:41:48 PM
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Yeah but mine had diagrams!
26/07/2012 03:46:49 PM
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I do sometimes need pictures.
26/07/2012 04:55:17 PM
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Where exactly did you get those numbers?
27/07/2012 07:23:31 PM
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Wikipedia, the unchallenged source for acurate and complete citation
27/07/2012 08:19:40 PM
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Sorry, I totally forgot about this post, hadn't noticed your replies.
31/07/2012 07:42:43 PM
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I'm not surprised there were missing incidents
31/07/2012 08:18:04 PM
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Norway? Scotland?
25/07/2012 09:31:49 PM
- 680 Views
And yet, the people who do these things tend to be more respectful of guns
25/07/2012 03:44:31 PM
- 682 Views
Well working with dangeorus items tends to lead to respect and caution or a Darwin Award
25/07/2012 04:52:13 PM
- 729 Views
I have no problem with guns, but I agree that assault weapons shouldn't be legal for ordinary people
25/07/2012 02:56:38 PM
- 741 Views
Re: guns
25/07/2012 03:07:30 PM
- 790 Views
what is the basis for your argument that people would have panicked and forgotten their guns?
25/07/2012 04:45:46 PM
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My basis is that people are people - subject to panic, confusion, and fear. *NM*
25/07/2012 05:46:58 PM
- 417 Views
Most people who regularly carry weapons reach for them when spooked, in my experience
25/07/2012 06:14:57 PM
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Re: Most people who regularly carry weapons reach for them when spooked, in my experience
25/07/2012 06:45:02 PM
- 799 Views
Putting your hand on something is a little different then shooting someone
25/07/2012 08:13:59 PM
- 654 Views
The problem with banning assualt weapons is the defention is mostly cosmetic
25/07/2012 05:29:35 PM
- 648 Views
Bullshit
26/07/2012 01:52:59 PM
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I call Bullshit on your Bullshit
26/07/2012 02:59:09 PM
- 702 Views
Or
26/07/2012 03:20:12 PM
- 618 Views
There a lot of us with military training and some were in that theater
26/07/2012 03:43:52 PM
- 618 Views
HE was talking about normal people.
26/07/2012 04:53:16 PM
- 728 Views
You're partially right but mostly wrong
26/07/2012 05:46:27 PM
- 707 Views
i have pretty strong feelings that they should be better regulated than they currently are
25/07/2012 03:18:10 PM
- 632 Views
Correct me if I'm wrong....
25/07/2012 03:53:07 PM
- 859 Views
I believe it was the ammunition he bought in large amounts online, not the guns themselves.
25/07/2012 07:22:31 PM
- 664 Views
Yes and I am glad it's not my problem.
25/07/2012 06:41:56 PM
- 770 Views
Well, you're missing the flaw in your reasoning...probably because you're appallingly ignorant
25/07/2012 09:19:18 PM
- 846 Views
Come back when you can discuss something without attacking someone.
26/07/2012 12:58:47 AM
- 667 Views
Dude, your burglary argument makes no sense
25/07/2012 11:09:37 PM
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They don't bring guns here. Huh. *NM*
26/07/2012 12:59:15 AM
- 335 Views
they don't typically bring guns here either
26/07/2012 02:01:14 AM
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That's how I understand it too but I'm dubious, many criminals are dumber than a bag of hammers
26/07/2012 02:22:18 AM
- 650 Views
Like I've always said, you can't un-invent the gun
25/07/2012 11:05:22 PM
- 642 Views
the argument of if America should have a lot guns is a long over
26/07/2012 03:29:50 PM
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See, there's another one of those BS stats tricks, 'family members' includes suicides and murder
26/07/2012 06:47:54 PM
- 633 Views
Sure, but you can legislate certain excessive firearms.
26/07/2012 09:41:12 PM
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assault rifles are banned
26/07/2012 10:51:28 PM
- 675 Views
I know the distinction. That's why I want a more clearly defined term for "assault weapon."
27/07/2012 09:46:11 AM
- 803 Views
Then stay away from the hyperbole because an Uzi is a sub machinegun so it is banned
27/07/2012 01:48:50 PM
- 657 Views