Yes; one of the most peaceful places on Earth was the site of the worst shooting rampage in history.
Joel Send a noteboard - 22/06/2012 08:57:34 PM
Most bizarre, instead of accusing the murdered childrens friends, family and colleagues of "blood libel" for noting Breiviks extreme right views, and that he is a former youth leader in Norways far right party, its leader expressed condolences on the party web site, concluding with "Today we are all Young Labor." Crazy, huh?
It is... complicated. He will probably remain in custody the rest of his life no matter what, but if found sane he could only be sentenced to 21 years; if medically declared insane he would probably be institutionalized forever. HOWEVER, if institutionalized as insane, he could, theoretically, later be declared cured by drugs and/or psychiatric therapy, which might require he be released. A criminal conviction would most likely cause him to remain in custody even after his sentence is complete, both to protect society and protect HIM from the victims friends and family, not to mention potential political retaliation (I doubt anyone would decide to "give him the war he wants," but fanatic extremists come in all political stripes.
Adding to the complication is that separate examinations have yielded conflicting diagnoses, and Breiviks behavior was not only chillingly methodical, but often rational in multiple ways, for extended periods. Crafting an incredibly detailed and convincing police uniform was, I hate to say, genius. That not only let him walk away from bombing the PMs office without suspicion, but be WELCOMED approaching Young Labors Utøya retreat with a gun, while his diversion kept all real police downtown seeking a bomber no longer there. This guy spent TEN YEARS planning, training and equipping for a massacre, always carefully avoiding anything that even might attract police suspicion. Breivik does not even have a traffic citation: He made sure that never happened. There were no warning signs because he consciously and consistently went out of his way to provide none. For ten years, as part of his master murder plan against dozens of teenagers.
Forget stopping him; how do we prevent something like that? How do we even spot him until the slaughter begins?
That kind of deliberate planning and preparation is pretty rational, but—murdering kids for their politics, in a one man war against insidious global conspiracy... that is not rational at all. He says he knew he it was an unspeakable atrocity the entire world would justly condemn (rational)—but he HAD to do it to save Norway and Christendom from Marxism, Muslims and multi-culturalism, even though he is only "culturally," not religiously Christian (irrational.)
The kicker: Lawyers must enter the plea their clients instruct, and Breivik insists, demands, he is perfectly sane, because otherwise his acts CANNOT be "political activism." If he is just another lunatic whose neighbors dog told him to murder strangers, his agenda has no relevance. How many remember Mansons political agenda? That may be much of why prosecutors claim him insane, so any political extremist tempted to follow in his footsteps knows that will forever invalidate their agenda to the entire world, reduce it to a madmans ravings (which his manifesto largely is.)
You all remember the mass killing carried out in Norway by Anders Breivik, yes? This is the man that killed 69 people at a Labor Party youth camp last July. I was reading news about his trial and I had to rub my eyes to make sure I was reading it right. His defense, his defense, urged the court to consider him sane while the prosecution urged the court to consider him insane. The prosecution.
What is this, bizarro world? Well, turns out that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is only 21 years, with early parole possible. And I assume that a person can be held more indefinitely at a psychiatric institution. But when have you ever heard of a defense urging sanity and the prosecution urging insanity? That seems very backwards to me.
(By the way, Breivik's defense wants him declared sane and acquitted because his actions were one of necessity. Can you believe that?)
What is this, bizarro world? Well, turns out that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is only 21 years, with early parole possible. And I assume that a person can be held more indefinitely at a psychiatric institution. But when have you ever heard of a defense urging sanity and the prosecution urging insanity? That seems very backwards to me.
(By the way, Breivik's defense wants him declared sane and acquitted because his actions were one of necessity. Can you believe that?)
It is... complicated. He will probably remain in custody the rest of his life no matter what, but if found sane he could only be sentenced to 21 years; if medically declared insane he would probably be institutionalized forever. HOWEVER, if institutionalized as insane, he could, theoretically, later be declared cured by drugs and/or psychiatric therapy, which might require he be released. A criminal conviction would most likely cause him to remain in custody even after his sentence is complete, both to protect society and protect HIM from the victims friends and family, not to mention potential political retaliation (I doubt anyone would decide to "give him the war he wants," but fanatic extremists come in all political stripes.
Adding to the complication is that separate examinations have yielded conflicting diagnoses, and Breiviks behavior was not only chillingly methodical, but often rational in multiple ways, for extended periods. Crafting an incredibly detailed and convincing police uniform was, I hate to say, genius. That not only let him walk away from bombing the PMs office without suspicion, but be WELCOMED approaching Young Labors Utøya retreat with a gun, while his diversion kept all real police downtown seeking a bomber no longer there. This guy spent TEN YEARS planning, training and equipping for a massacre, always carefully avoiding anything that even might attract police suspicion. Breivik does not even have a traffic citation: He made sure that never happened. There were no warning signs because he consciously and consistently went out of his way to provide none. For ten years, as part of his master murder plan against dozens of teenagers.
Forget stopping him; how do we prevent something like that? How do we even spot him until the slaughter begins?
That kind of deliberate planning and preparation is pretty rational, but—murdering kids for their politics, in a one man war against insidious global conspiracy... that is not rational at all. He says he knew he it was an unspeakable atrocity the entire world would justly condemn (rational)—but he HAD to do it to save Norway and Christendom from Marxism, Muslims and multi-culturalism, even though he is only "culturally," not religiously Christian (irrational.)
The kicker: Lawyers must enter the plea their clients instruct, and Breivik insists, demands, he is perfectly sane, because otherwise his acts CANNOT be "political activism." If he is just another lunatic whose neighbors dog told him to murder strangers, his agenda has no relevance. How many remember Mansons political agenda? That may be much of why prosecutors claim him insane, so any political extremist tempted to follow in his footsteps knows that will forever invalidate their agenda to the entire world, reduce it to a madmans ravings (which his manifesto largely is.)
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 23/06/2012 at 12:02:11 AM
Umm...so is the bizarro world located in Norway?
22/06/2012 05:33:25 PM
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If the prosecution thinks the person is insane, then it should urge for insanity
22/06/2012 05:48:19 PM
- 374 Views
Yes; one of the most peaceful places on Earth was the site of the worst shooting rampage in history.
22/06/2012 08:57:34 PM
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Every time I see it mentioned on the news I wonder about the purpose of it
22/06/2012 11:57:17 PM
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I'm proud of the way the court system has handled this case
23/06/2012 09:18:55 AM
- 573 Views
Agreed. Norway's response has been a victory for civilisation against terrorism from start to finish
23/06/2012 10:03:29 AM
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It all seems sensible to me, and something for other justice systems to aspire towards.
23/06/2012 11:16:02 AM
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