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Agreed. Joel Send a noteboard - 28/09/2009 12:06:29 AM
My 9-month-old daughter has no idea if she does something that we consider to be "wrong" and she's FAR too young to be yelled at or spanked.

The study organizer said the following:

The best use of spanking, Larzelere said, is in children between the ages of 2 and 6 when milder discipline tactics, such as time out, fail.

In other words, the study basically concluded that (1) you shouldn't immediately spank as a punishment, (2) you should only spank older children who can appreciate the connection between the behavior and the punishment and (3) you don't EVER demean a child verbally - criticize actions and behaviors, not people or their intrinsic qualities.

Either that, or the study got it all wrong - maybe the kids are spanked more BECAUSE they're stupid. :P

Especially on point three, but that seems to be a VERY subtle nuance many, if not most, people don't recognize. Hence we can't say cannibalism, bestiality, genocide etc. etc. are inherently "wrong" because we can't make value judgments about PEOPLE; that would be... er... wrong.... :confused:

Of course, stating it's wrong to go into a supermarket and start gunning down people at random for fun doesn't make any value judgment on a person, only the action, which I'd hope we can all agree is indefensible. Likewise, the possibility someone might do that or something similar due to the effects of current or past trauma in their lives may be relevant to the severity of the penalty, but doesn't mitigate the results of the behavior and thus fails to make it any more acceptable.

Yes, I realize a lot of that seems like it should be patently obvious; what bothers me (a lot) is that it evidently often isn't.

To return to topic, the article isn't all bad, but where it succeeds, I think, is where it applies common sense becoming conventional wisdom. Spanking shouldn't be the first response in most cases, at least IMHO, or it could very easily create the impression that every problem should be first addressed with force. It shouldn't be used when the child is unable to connect the spanking with the consequences of their actions, or it's just abuse that could, if frequent enough, produce traumatic scarring. Indeed, it seems most effective when it is a last resort; Star Trek quotes aside there are regrettably times when violence can only be countered with violence, but to reduce the need as much as possible it is paramount to ensure violence is only accepted when all other options have failed.
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Apparently spanking makes children stupid. - 26/09/2009 12:25:34 PM 1000 Views
Spanking? - 26/09/2009 12:34:41 PM 584 Views
Re: Spanking? - 26/09/2009 12:36:24 PM 629 Views
Negative memories aren't all bad. Parents just need to be consistent, yet loving. *NM* - 26/09/2009 02:06:07 PM 293 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/09/2009 02:41:39 PM 286 Views
I dunno.. - 26/09/2009 02:49:50 PM 577 Views
I do believe this study was created to prove the point, not test it. - 26/09/2009 03:25:54 PM 600 Views
What are your grounds for that belief? - 26/09/2009 04:11:37 PM 597 Views
Duke University is one of the best universities in the United States - 26/09/2009 05:11:21 PM 590 Views
Yeah, I have heard of it. - 26/09/2009 05:56:30 PM 562 Views
I agree with her, and here's why - 26/09/2009 06:28:53 PM 563 Views
You are apparently pretty ignorant about psychology if you think it is pseudo-science. - 27/09/2009 01:09:02 AM 546 Views
Bah. It's not falsifiable. - 27/09/2009 01:09:37 PM 640 Views
Karl Popper had a turquoise willy. Falsify THAT with your CERNomatic juiceharp, Galileo. *NM* - 27/09/2009 03:05:44 PM 274 Views
hehe. *NM* - 27/09/2009 04:24:54 PM 282 Views
I would agree... and... - 27/09/2009 01:45:48 AM 516 Views
More likely their comparing two effects and claiming correlation - 27/09/2009 02:32:42 PM 537 Views
Clearly that's why all of our old people are so stupid. - 26/09/2009 04:09:52 PM 573 Views
No, no, that's just nossy bringing down the average. *NM* - 26/09/2009 04:12:10 PM 281 Views
That's not what the study says. It says don't spank VERY young children - 26/09/2009 05:16:33 PM 675 Views
Hahaha *NM* - 26/09/2009 05:58:01 PM 307 Views
Did I miss something or did I just forget? - 27/09/2009 12:54:13 AM 592 Views
Uh... - 27/09/2009 03:32:03 PM 557 Views
She's a beauty! - 28/09/2009 05:16:36 AM 555 Views
too cute for words! *NM* - 28/09/2009 01:33:29 PM 316 Views
That is also what I got. *NM* - 27/09/2009 12:56:08 AM 283 Views
It isn't brain science... wiat a minute, it actually is... - 27/09/2009 01:18:35 AM 558 Views
Agreed. - 28/09/2009 12:06:29 AM 619 Views
For children that young, I can agree. - 26/09/2009 05:56:41 PM 557 Views
With this too, I agree. ^_^ *NM* - 27/09/2009 01:46:32 AM 256 Views
*rings in* Same. - 04/10/2009 11:55:02 PM 732 Views
Really? - 27/09/2009 01:48:35 AM 613 Views
I must be pretty stupid, then. - 28/09/2009 05:49:26 PM 550 Views
It certainly can make them kinky. *NM* - 28/09/2009 07:19:34 PM 297 Views
It's the old "nature v. nurture" argument again... *NM* - 05/10/2009 06:08:26 PM 225 Views
When the kid has both, it's really screwed over then. *NM* - 05/10/2009 07:48:15 PM 232 Views

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