Re: Because I counted Thankgiving, and holidays for federal employees rather...
DomA Send a noteboard - 28/05/2012 04:31:14 AM
Wikipedia claims the origins of your Thanksgiving lie even farther back than ours, by the way, and quotes your Parliament establishing it officially in 1957
That's when it became a civic holiday. The tradition of celebrating Action de Grâce goes way further, to 1799 the first time it was officially celebrated, and originates with British loyalists who migrated to Lower Canada from the south (that's you). Originally it thanked God and the King for the peace and prosperity of the realm, and it wasn't a fixed holiday but a celebration that was proclaimed at need.
Most of the French equivalents to those reaping festivals didn't follow or died fast in New France, as we never cultivated grapes.
Why it's not considered a religious holiday here is simple: most Québécois were catholics (and still nominally are), and it's not a catholic feastday but a popular feastday borrowed from protestants and thanking their King, which later became a federal civic day.
basis and meaning remain religious just as Mardi Gras/Carneval does, even if many people with little or no religious fervor have since added unrelated aspects.
Actually, it's a secular feastday that existed in tons of traditions which the Church, who disapproved of those popular festivals thoroughly (for obvious reasons... the village's fool elected Abbot for a day and whatnot - the Church was mocked alongside authorities in general in carnivals), transformed into a religious feastday before Ash Wednesday. The religious feastday here is fat tuesday, which only old fashioned practicing catholics still hold to. Carnivals, charivaris etc. are not held at Mardi-Gras anymore and have all returned to their non-religious roots (though without the original "inverted world" symbolism, which belonged with medieval mentalities).
If we say any holiday people used for partying or just general rest and relaxation is disqualified as religious, then NO holiday is qualified.
Well.. culturally speaking only Christmas and Easter still have religious meanings for a sizeable percentage of the population (if not by any mean everyone). The other religious feastdays are now ignored by all but practicing catholics (and same for protestant ones I guess, I wouldn't even know what they are). Most of the Canadian civic holidays have nothing to do anymore with religion. Quite a few of them like St-Jean-Baptiste were full of pagan connotations... presenting the Baptist as an Appollo-like golden-haired child-sheepherder carrying a newborn lamb, and with pyres lit all night to celebrate the longest day. It's the old summer solstice festivals on which St-John and christian symbolism were tacked on by the Church. Now we've done away with the lamb and child, and we've even renamed the feastday to get rid of the last christian association, making it the province's National Holiday (it's still called St-Jean outside Québec).. We've kept the pyres. Not that the Church really complains, tons of modern priest around here care nothing for newborn lambs and solar child, easter water and the whole lot of christianized paraphernalia, and think that while they had a purpose once upon a time to integrate the last popular/pagan practices into Christianity, that's just accumulated clutter catholicism is much better without these days.
For Our Nordmenn: What Happens to Federal Religious Holidays in the Absence of a State Church?
27/05/2012 01:33:20 PM
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Nothing, they are federal holidays still because of strong unions, not religion
27/05/2012 06:58:52 PM
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Hypocrisy FTW, eh?
27/05/2012 11:04:38 PM
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No.
27/05/2012 11:16:11 PM
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Again, some people manifestly care; just not enough to relinquish a paid holiday.
28/05/2012 01:48:26 AM
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Nothing.
27/05/2012 07:03:07 PM
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Replacing it with another, secular, holiday seems the responsible thing to do.
27/05/2012 11:15:11 PM
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People. Don't. Care.
27/05/2012 11:29:07 PM
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If people did not care, disestablishmentarianism (and its antithesis) would not exist.
28/05/2012 01:41:18 AM
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Most of them are stolen from heden traditions and have nothing to do with christianity.
27/05/2012 07:15:55 PM
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Since two resident history buffs recently excoriated me for that claim, I have no wish to revisit it
27/05/2012 11:27:13 PM
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Thanksgiving isn't a religious holiday.
27/05/2012 08:43:58 PM
- 535 Views
That is rather debatable.
28/05/2012 12:08:53 AM
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The Distinction
29/05/2012 07:41:47 PM
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Thanksgiving was a purely federal institution. FDR dictated the date it's celebrated
30/05/2012 03:22:09 AM
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That distinction would be an almost wholly Roman Catholic (or possibly Greek Orthodox) one.
01/06/2012 01:47:12 AM
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How do you come to four for Canada?
27/05/2012 11:29:57 PM
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Because I counted Thankgiving, and holidays for federal employees rather than just statutory ones.
28/05/2012 02:03:55 AM
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Re: Because I counted Thankgiving, and holidays for federal employees rather...
28/05/2012 04:31:14 AM
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Well, you know better than I, but I found the 1580s date interesting.
28/05/2012 04:08:31 PM
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Re: Well, you no better than I, but I found the 1580s date interesting.
29/05/2012 01:15:52 AM
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Ireland has a tonne of religious public holidays yet no state religion.
28/05/2012 12:48:55 AM
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I wondered how that would shake out for the rest of Europe, or at least Western Europe.
28/05/2012 02:29:16 AM
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It's funny how you use "federal" to mean "mandated by national government".
28/05/2012 03:49:17 PM
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I was thinking more "central" government, but OK.
28/05/2012 04:26:38 PM
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Re: I was thinking more "central" government, but OK.
28/05/2012 04:50:32 PM
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Re: I was thinking more "central" government, but OK.
01/06/2012 02:03:40 AM
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I think you've got the Scotland Act backwards.
01/06/2012 09:48:36 AM
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There's a lot of countries that call "devolution" federalism, though.
01/06/2012 09:52:23 PM
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What about when most of the country is still under central control?
02/06/2012 10:25:47 AM
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