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To play Devil's Advocate, there's some legitimacy to the concept Isaac Send a noteboard - 11/04/2012 04:24:37 AM
I would love to hear the legal rationale for that suit, since it has always been taken for granted that committing a felony usually forfeits the right to vote in US elections. Unless they are arguing against that principle, it is hard to see how the suit can have any merit.


The specific legal rationale is that Cali law prohibits felons currently in prison or on parole from voting, many are being transfered to county jails, which aren't prisons, and obviously jails have typically allowed voting... there was flap about that in Cook County in 2010, people freaking out because absentees were being given to people there, forgetting that jail usually is where people go prior to being convicted of anything... anyway there are a lot of state's that have fairly explicit language about that matter just to prevent denying people awaiting trial or sleeping off a misdemeanor being disenfranchised, especially against fears someone might lock a bunch of people up on election day. It's got about a snowball's chance but this is Cali we're talking about.

Which is a decent argument—that the LEGAL (not electoral) system is racially biased. Responding to that by altering election law rather misses the point, at the expense of restoring voting rights to many rightfully incarcerated felons who have no business voting. Given the popularity referenda substituting democracy for republicanism, that is ill-advised, since even in a strictly republican system it could result in felons retroactively exonerating themselves by electing representatives who repeal laws against their crimes. "When outlaws have votes, nothing will be outlawed," or something. :P


Personally, and I like to think I'm speaking as objectively as I can without regard to who such votes would favor (improbable put who knows?) I think a waiting period post parole and incarceration is legit, as is something like a 200 word essay as opposed to an application, though I'm biased since I used to use essays as a punishment in lieu of screaming and I felt it worked better, people think about stuff when writing about it. If my opinion were asked I would actually say view it as a coin flip, calculate based on the given variety of offense the usual odds of recidivism and pick the midway point to when that takes place, if they make it past that period I feel they can officially be qualified as better than even chance of going on the straight and narrow, that just seems more logical to me, something along those lines, but I think so long as they can't vote in prison (or Jail while serving a felony) and have at least some non-ridiculous path back to vote, then it's okay, and that appears to be the case in most places.

Last I heard, FL was getting hit over claims of racism for wanting it to be permanent, again, even for people who committed their crimes in other states that have since restored their voting rights. In other words, if you robbed a liquor store in VA 25 years ago, VA may have forgiven you, but FL NEVER will. Florida also got in trouble in 2004 for mass registration purges immediately before the election, not only because of the draconian nature of their laws, but because the purges incidentally and erroneously affected many non-felons. The case that stuck in my mind was a US Congresswoman denied the right to vote because she had been purged from the registrar on the grounds she was a felon.


If I remember FL's situation correctly the governor wanted to re-institute the five year after rule they used to have until about a decade, and have a 200 word essay as opposed to a 1 page application (yeah 200 not 2,000, half a page) that's from memory so grain of salt and all.

That, in so many ways, may be the core problem with government in modern America (among other places, e.g. Greece:) We expect government to serve us, but also expect it at no cost, because we are entitled to its services as taxpayers. That logic is only practical to the extent we actually ARE taxpayers. Or to quote a line popular at Mission Control since before I was born, "when 200 miles in the air at 30,000 mph, remember: You're doing it on lowest bid.... (8"


Yeah, lowest bid jokes... the other one we did a lot in the Army was to joke on how our stuff was made by the blind, Skil-Craft and all, not that they don't provide perfectly quality stuff but the jokes are generic and don't have to make sense. Well it's certainly true you get what you pay for, except when you don't even get that because you got scammed, and the gov't has a crap history on both fronts and the voters have generally been partially responsible for a lot of that, though any candidate who ever made the mistake of pointing to the truism that in a democracy you've only yourselves to blame would be out on their ass in a heartbeat.

This is why I'm increasingly demarchist, rule by jury basically, I think we need a lot more done at the democratic level but we can't get into depth for everyone and so we should assemble panels of random persons to dip a bit deeper into stuff, not criminal just efficiency and such, I think we'd see less scapegoats that way at least. You know, grab a dozen random persons to look into something like how we do school lunch funds and let both sides present a case and if they can pick something 10-2 or better, just roll with it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

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Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 11/04/2012 at 04:33:48 AM
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No voter fraud Mr. Holder? I beg to differ..... - 09/04/2012 07:13:46 PM 660 Views
The irony of a Republican-leaning person pointing this out... *NM* - 09/04/2012 08:37:33 PM 152 Views
Why is it ironic? - 09/04/2012 09:54:10 PM 410 Views
The irony is merely that of the pot and the kettle - 10/04/2012 01:05:39 AM 304 Views
If you are referring to FL in 2000.....those machines were bought by Dems..... - 10/04/2012 01:17:26 AM 294 Views
Was thinking more about Ohio to be honest - 10/04/2012 01:22:55 AM 304 Views
Intentional Voting Suppression is what they are trying to do in Florida right now(due to a 2011 law) - 10/04/2012 04:22:25 AM 451 Views
Honestly, I'm fine with convicted felons permanently losing their right to vote..... - 10/04/2012 04:34:31 AM 286 Views
I am also fine with stupid people not being allowed to vote - 10/04/2012 04:36:20 AM 249 Views
Agreed - stupid people should not be allowed to vote, maybe an IQ test? - 10/04/2012 05:17:43 AM 252 Views
Also the poor should not be allowed to vote - 10/04/2012 10:13:27 PM 252 Views
Hey, to jump in here. - 18/04/2012 04:12:15 AM 249 Views
I don't know about permanently... - 10/04/2012 02:10:10 PM 271 Views
Who is talking about letting felons vote in prison? - 10/04/2012 02:24:29 PM 350 Views
The League of Women Voters, for one - 10/04/2012 08:50:39 PM 273 Views
Well, that is simply ridiculous then, and merits no consideration. - 10/04/2012 11:53:04 PM 357 Views
To play Devil's Advocate, there's some legitimacy to the concept - 11/04/2012 04:24:37 AM 321 Views
Ohio? When? *NM* - 10/04/2012 04:30:29 AM 102 Views
2008. - 10/04/2012 04:37:15 AM 249 Views
Once again, Dems were running those polls and counties. - 10/04/2012 05:19:14 AM 224 Views
they were not in 2004 and still had vote supression and irregularities - 10/04/2012 04:44:36 PM 260 Views
I think you've got your facts wrong - 10/04/2012 09:00:55 PM 268 Views
Stating something doesn't make it true - 10/04/2012 04:10:33 AM 318 Views
I'm impressed that you wrote so much in reply - 10/04/2012 04:36:02 AM 273 Views
How long voting takes is a function of machines, not voters. - 10/04/2012 02:08:39 PM 344 Views
It's a function of various factors, that can certainly be one - 10/04/2012 08:12:08 PM 293 Views
Ohio in 2004 was hinky enough to prompt the only Congressional challenge since 1876s Corrupt Bargain - 10/04/2012 11:36:52 PM 415 Views
I know it's a bit pot/kettle but dude... stay on topic - 11/04/2012 01:34:26 AM 320 Views
I LOST PORKINS! - 11/04/2012 07:26:41 AM 335 Views
As long as people need not purchase their voting requirements, voter IDs are fine by me. - 10/04/2012 12:53:35 PM 355 Views
It's frightening when I agree with you. - 10/04/2012 02:52:23 PM 272 Views
Law of averages, maybe. - 10/04/2012 04:44:55 PM 388 Views

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