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Ohio in 2004 was hinky enough to prompt the only Congressional challenge since 1876s Corrupt Bargain Joel Send a noteboard - 10/04/2012 11:36:52 PM
You may recall that one; just a decade after nominally waging the Civil War on behalf of emancipation, Republicans condoned a century of Jim Crow in exchange for an unelected president, Rutherford Hayes. It says something about him that the rampant graft permeating his adminisration, rather than the election, earned the moniker "Rutherfraud" (where was he from again...? ;)) It says something about the GOP that they so quickly sacrificed blacks on the altar of political power. It says something about Southern Democrats that they betrayed both the party and Constitution for the sake of racism. It says something depressing about America that the same two groups who inaugurated Hayes inaugurated Reagan a century later. In that light it is hardly surprising that when the GOP nominee was a single electoral vote from defeat in 2000 (just as in 1876) the FL electoral delegation was contested (just as in 1876) and the Republican candidate was ultimately awarded every single vote needed for victory (just as in 1876.)

I recall no reports of machine shortages outside Cleveland (e.g. reliably Republican Cincinatti seemed to be fine.) It would not take long for 250 people to vote on a dozen machines, but it would take much longer with only three or four machines. About three or four times longer, at a guess. ;) Sorry, man, but many things stunk about ya'lls 2004 election, making Blackwells subsequent gubernatorial run laughable. The only reason churchs handing out "voting guides" (read: Instruction) was not more of an issue is because it is so shamefully routine; at least no OH churches expelled Kerry-voters (as in NC in '04.)

People screamed it stunk so much that everyone thinks so, very little of this was ever substantiated and I simply don't accept something as ironclad fact unless there's real evidence, someone could claim Yeti mobbed them and they were speeding fleeing the things, and while a thousand people claiming it would definitely get me to look into it, I'd need some cold hard proof before I said "This happened and just liek you say so", you're just relaying undocumented events right now, and a newspaper reporter reporting it afterwards is not a reliable source either, with years to have compiled hard evidence (phone records of people receiving the 'vote wednesday', stack of misdirecting fliers from multiple sources and/or police, presiding judges of polls signing affidavits that this or that occurred) without that, it is just grapevine and rumormill... and that seems to me all it was, though I am genuinely open to proof otherwise.

I would be genuinely shocked if any Republican electioneering on Bushs behalf in 2004 kept a stack of fliers with a false election day around for nearly a decade just so someone can use it to prove their guilt and their partys, and just as shocked if one allowed that stack to fall into anyone elses hands. That is about as likely as Ford keeping a memo offering Nixon a pardon in exchange for the presidency, then accidentally leaving it out for his cleaning lady to find in the late nineties (probably less likely, given Fords general level of competence.) Whatever did or did not happen, incontrovertible proof of improprieties then is as hard to find now as similar proof LBJ stuffed ballot boxes to get elected to the Senate. At the time, however, there was enough evidence Republican-aligned groups proclaimed false election dates in Democratic-aligned areas, and of interminable voting lines, that Kucinich (who represents the area where most of that is alleged) released a post-election statement referencing constituent complaints about both.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1110-31.htm

Meanwhile, what Cleveland lacked in polling machines it made up for in conservative third-party groups putting up fliers claiming anyone who had ever had even a traffic ticket would be arrested for voting, or prominently displaying a false election date. Saying that was fellow travelers carefully distanced from the "official" party, therefore "not party driven," has been a time-honored Rove tactic since Bushs first gubernatorial run (longer; it got him kicked off Reagans TX campaign) but is no more credible than denying GOP responsibility for '04 swiftboating, or allegations in '94 that Ann Richards packed state agencies with homosexuals.

Now, those fliers just like the phone calls, I've never seen any substantiation that took place, just that people claimed it did. Unless you can point me to actual documentation of those I have to consider it untrue... and one guy posting one or two wouldn't count, though I haven't even see that much.

Like I say, I do not expect to find any decade old stacks of fraudulent election materials lying around now, but if that does not substantiate the claim, it does not disprove it either. If Kucinich lied about it, OH Republicans probably punished him sufficiently by gerrymandering him out of his district.

It is ancient history now, and I know no election is perfect, but OH elections under Blackwell were a blight on democracy. Perhaps most telling was that, after proudly and repeatedly declaring "every voter will count and every vote will be counted," Kerry conceded only a few hours after the final OH returns were recorded: The election was close enough to meet legal recount requirements (as you surely recall,) but it fell to the Greens and Libertarians to demand (and pay for) one; the Democratic nominee could not be bothered. I worked a TX e-lection that year, and was alarmed at how easily those in charge could have reported any results they liked, if so inclined. We are essentially forced to rely on the third of poll workers who identify as "independent" to prevent Dem and Republican poll workers deciding elections.

That's an extreme exaggeration and Blackwell was not at fault, anymore then Kucinch, who I don't blame for being leery of Diebold but they're an Ohio company and when we decided not to use their stuff it through a wrench in the gears. Also I don't recall, I was very not in the United States in 2004 or 2006, I had to research this after the fact when the dust had settled, ditto with Taft, so I view myself having a slightly more objective view on it. I could read up on an accusation and flash forward at the speed of google to see if anything came of it, most didn't. The only irregularity of note, in my book, was the incident with the recount, where two workers, one of each party, got lazy, now I'd knock them for that but they were being asked to hand recount a decided election where the other candidate had already conceded and no other race was going to be effected so... yeah, wrong but even the prosecutor acknowledged there was no politically motivated chicanery and no effect on the votes besides a black eye. Also, in Ohio there is no third of poll judges as independents, 2 GOP, 2 Dem, the language allows for additional of other parties but essentially that's it.

While I have long been curious how TX goes about selecting the third of "independent" election workers, splitting it 50/50 between the two major parties alone seems like a recipe for oligarchy (but then, republicanism by itself is a good recipe for oligarchy.) Not a trend we should encourage, given that the next election is Robamcare author vs. Robamacare implementer, and the '04 election was Yale alum vs. Yale alum, with Bednarik and Cobb forced to demand (and finance) the OH recount when Kerry would do neither. It is a good example of why I would prefer either of them to Kerry or Bush though.

I had forgotten about Diebold president Wally O'Dells infamous GOP fundraiser promise to "deliver Ohios electoral votes for the president [i.e. Bush]" but that really did not help matters. Between that and Diebolds gaping security holes and lack of a paper trail, their machines should not be used in ANY election. Still and so, no one alleged a machine shortage for OH AS A WHOLE, only Cleveland and (according to Kucinich, who does not represent them) Columbus, AKA "the only parts of OH where people would throw water on Kerry if they saw him on fire." In terms of documentation and substantiation, while the author does not link his data sources (which he claims to be the OH Board of Elections,) the below linked article has a good statistical analysis of Franklin County voting machine distribution. The near-universal rule of thumb is that historically Republican precincts had significantly more voting machines per capita than historically Democratic ones, enough so the survey author claims that, had the distribution been even, "Kerry's plurality would have been 9,971 votes more" IN FRANKLIN COUNTY ALONE.

Given how heavily Bush won the rest of OH, that would probably still not have been enough to overcome his ~130,000 statewide margin, even if the effect were duplicated in Columbus, but the fact remains machine distribution disproportionately favored Republicans. That is hardly justified by explaining distribution was based on past turnout rather than registration, because, as we have often discussed (and as often referenced in what google has turned up on Ohios 2004 election) Republican turnout is typically higher than Democratic, all else being equal. In other words, however practical it may seem, allocating machines based on past turnout rather than registered voters inherently favors the GOP, whether maliciously or "only" incompetently. When done despite a massive urban registration spike, the malice/incompetence is proportionately magnified.

Now that I am in full awful-flashback mode, I also recall reports Blackwell forbade any media oversight of recounts, making the public reliant on various partisan observers for any account of how they were conducted. On that note, the "laziness" involved was, according to Green Party nominee David Cobb (who, along with Lib nominee Michael Badnarik, demanded and paid for the recount,) that election workers deliberately selected precincts to recount on the basis of closely matching the statewide results, rather than randomly (as state law requires.) That is a black eye for both the election process and the major parties whose members made that self-serving (and illegal) decision. It further encourages the already strong reason to believe American politics is no more than two elitist groups with the same selfish agenda, deigning to let the public decide which of them implements it.

http://www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/ohio_reports/#notrandom

With regard to that election though, if the 2000 election irregularities can be summarized as "FL et al." those in 2004 are "OH et al." Just scanning Wikipedias page on it demonstrates that, but also turns up a few other things, like this comment from a NYT article at the time:

Perhaps the most visible of Ohio's problems were its long lines. Christopher McQuoid reached his polling place in Columbus at 4:30 p.m., congratulating himself for beating the after-work rush. By 7:30, he was getting impatient. And when he finally voted at 9:30, there were 150 people in line behind him.

"I was lucky," said Mr. McQuoid, a radio announcer. "I had the day off."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/24/national/24vote.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1

Very lucky; he was in line five hours, and two hours after the polls were supposed to close there were still 150 people behind him. Wikipedia claims some OH polls were open until 11PM to allow people in line by 7PM to vote; last I checked, 11-7=4, so, yes, there were people in line many hours, though a cursory glance has not shown any in line ten hours.

The Washington Post printed a similar "anecdote:"

Tanya Thivener's is a tale of two voting precincts in Franklin County. In her city neighborhood, which is vastly Democratic and majority black, the 38-year-old mortgage broker found a line snaking out of the precinct door.

She stood in line for four hours -- one hour in the rain -- and watched dozens of potential voters mutter in disgust and walk away without casting a ballot. Afterward, Thivener hopped in her car and drove to her mother's house, in the vastly Republican and majority white suburb of Harrisburg. How long, she asked, did it take her to vote?

Fifteen minutes, her mother replied.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64737-2004Dec14.html

That MSM article also references (whether directly or not, I am uncertain) the findings in the below linked study:

After the election, local political activists seeking a recount analyzed how Franklin County officials distributed voting machines. They found that 27 of the 30 wards with the most machines per registered voter showed majorities for Bush. At the other end of the spectrum, six of the seven wards with the fewest machines delivered large margins for Kerry.

Then, of course, there is the report every article on the OH election mentions: Election workers openly conceding that two dozen machines incorrectly recorded Kerry-votes as Bush-votes, and they do not even know how many times it happened before anyone noticed. That one is right up there with the AZ voter in 2000 who claimed he had to re-enter a vote for Kerry SEVEN TIMES before the machine stopped giving it to Bush.

People who dislike prison do not stuff ballot boxes in 21st Century America; they devise a system disproportionately favoring their side while granting them plausible deniability, then blame their creation for all bias. Believing Democratic election officials would not be culpable in that requires believing the two major parties differ on anything but rhetoric, and I am increasingly unable to suspend my DISbelief that much.

Note, by the way, I fully support photo voter ID as long as it is paid for by taxes rather than directly by individual voters (i.e. a poll tax.) If it is important enough to be a voting requirement (which I agree it is,) it is important enough to spend tax money. Likewise, I see no reasonable objection to requiring photo voter ID provided at no direct charge. Government has a duty to safeguards the peoples rights, which include voting, even people who cannot afford to individually pay for it.

I concur with a caveat, I don't think it would be unreasonable to charge for replacement ID's that were required more frequently then every four or five years, for instance, but not a big deal to me... now the actual text of a given law implementing that I'd watch like a hawk but certainly in principle I don't want cost of ID to prevent people from voting... honestly I don't think it really does anyway though, and I do think we want to be a touch cautious setting a precedent that ID would be a poll tax, postage on an absentee, gas spent getting there or bus fare, these are not the public's concern.

There is a difference between charging for the means of voting and the means of reaching the polling place, since the latter does not actively impede voting. For what it is worth, I do not think absentee ballots should require postage, at least not when a legitimate need for them exists (not that I expect Norway to mail my absentee ballot free of charge, but most absentee ballots are for the military, and sending an absentee ballot through an APO should be free of charge; in many cases, those people have already paid plenty for their right to vote.) However, a marginal fee for repeated replacement IDs is not unreasonable (though the county registrar sent me a new registration card every two years in TX, at no charge.) Most people will not use them more often than once every four (MAYBE two) years anyway.

Apologies for length and tone; I will give you the last word, because if I spend any more time thinking about ya'lls 2004 election I will be in full rant mode. :<img class=' />
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Survey of Franklin County voting machine distribution by precinct partisanship, 2004
This message last edited by Joel on 11/04/2012 at 12:06:33 AM
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No voter fraud Mr. Holder? I beg to differ..... - 09/04/2012 07:13:46 PM 660 Views
The irony of a Republican-leaning person pointing this out... *NM* - 09/04/2012 08:37:33 PM 152 Views
Why is it ironic? - 09/04/2012 09:54:10 PM 410 Views
The irony is merely that of the pot and the kettle - 10/04/2012 01:05:39 AM 304 Views
If you are referring to FL in 2000.....those machines were bought by Dems..... - 10/04/2012 01:17:26 AM 294 Views
Was thinking more about Ohio to be honest - 10/04/2012 01:22:55 AM 304 Views
Intentional Voting Suppression is what they are trying to do in Florida right now(due to a 2011 law) - 10/04/2012 04:22:25 AM 451 Views
Honestly, I'm fine with convicted felons permanently losing their right to vote..... - 10/04/2012 04:34:31 AM 286 Views
I am also fine with stupid people not being allowed to vote - 10/04/2012 04:36:20 AM 249 Views
Agreed - stupid people should not be allowed to vote, maybe an IQ test? - 10/04/2012 05:17:43 AM 252 Views
Also the poor should not be allowed to vote - 10/04/2012 10:13:27 PM 252 Views
Hey, to jump in here. - 18/04/2012 04:12:15 AM 249 Views
I don't know about permanently... - 10/04/2012 02:10:10 PM 271 Views
Who is talking about letting felons vote in prison? - 10/04/2012 02:24:29 PM 350 Views
The League of Women Voters, for one - 10/04/2012 08:50:39 PM 273 Views
Ohio? When? *NM* - 10/04/2012 04:30:29 AM 102 Views
2008. - 10/04/2012 04:37:15 AM 249 Views
Once again, Dems were running those polls and counties. - 10/04/2012 05:19:14 AM 224 Views
they were not in 2004 and still had vote supression and irregularities - 10/04/2012 04:44:36 PM 260 Views
I think you've got your facts wrong - 10/04/2012 09:00:55 PM 268 Views
Stating something doesn't make it true - 10/04/2012 04:10:33 AM 318 Views
I'm impressed that you wrote so much in reply - 10/04/2012 04:36:02 AM 273 Views
How long voting takes is a function of machines, not voters. - 10/04/2012 02:08:39 PM 344 Views
It's a function of various factors, that can certainly be one - 10/04/2012 08:12:08 PM 293 Views
Ohio in 2004 was hinky enough to prompt the only Congressional challenge since 1876s Corrupt Bargain - 10/04/2012 11:36:52 PM 416 Views
I know it's a bit pot/kettle but dude... stay on topic - 11/04/2012 01:34:26 AM 320 Views
I LOST PORKINS! - 11/04/2012 07:26:41 AM 335 Views
As long as people need not purchase their voting requirements, voter IDs are fine by me. - 10/04/2012 12:53:35 PM 355 Views
It's frightening when I agree with you. - 10/04/2012 02:52:23 PM 272 Views
Law of averages, maybe. - 10/04/2012 04:44:55 PM 388 Views

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