And the cookies are not a lie... at last night's meeting, we had Thin Mints
Isaac Send a noteboard - 15/03/2012 09:51:30 PM
Though normally it's homemade, still thin mints and those coconut and caramel striped Samoans are my favorite girl scouts cookies.
We will get a lot, first, voting for someone in '08 doesn't imply deep passion, probably a good 20% or so of the people who vote really pretty much shrug win or lose. Many voted for him in a spirit of change or feel good, and that ship has mostly sailed. McCain was old and not charismatic, and Palin fired up a lot of the base but scared many off, this will likely not be the case this time.
Now, of actual people who genuinely supported him, will we get converts? Sure, we always do, a pretty large portion of Republicans are ex-liberals, often very passionate ones. Republicans consistently having a larger proportional share of older voters is likely not caused by republicans registering later, and I know plenty including myself. I know a lot of dedicated and active republicans because I'm really not joking about the meetings, and anecdotally I'd say about a third to a half of them were former liberals.
In terms of liberal converts Tax/Economy usually doesn't play into it much. In my experience the most common is getting fed up with one's allies. Some learn to cope with it, some just drop out of active interest, some flee to the Greens or Libertarians, but an awful lot make their way to the GOP, and the flow is mostly one way.
Fortunately high unemployment numbers and record deficits make for short and clear sound bites.
Discussion of that would take a long, long time, so I'll leave at 'disagree almost entirely' and Bush came in when the economy wasn't too sweet either, one could argue that inherited recession or not, and the Democrats in many ways inherited the recession from themselves, Obama's had 3 years and not only failed to improve things but made them worse. We can discuss the details of that if you want but for our purposes here 'perception' is all that matters and people increasingly see this economy as being in Obama's lap.
Yes, I do actually know several friends or acquaintances off the top of my head who pulled the proverbial lever for him in '08 and are now solidly opposed. The #1 cited reason has typically been "I can't believe I voted for that guy".
We will get a lot of ex-Obama voters,
Will you? That's what I was asking, what would make someone who voted for Obama in '08 decide to vote Republican? I can see former supporters being disillusioned, even disillusioned enough to just not vote at all ("Ugh, what does it matter, no matter who I vote for, the banks and corporations have all the power, etc.".
We will get a lot, first, voting for someone in '08 doesn't imply deep passion, probably a good 20% or so of the people who vote really pretty much shrug win or lose. Many voted for him in a spirit of change or feel good, and that ship has mostly sailed. McCain was old and not charismatic, and Palin fired up a lot of the base but scared many off, this will likely not be the case this time.
Now, of actual people who genuinely supported him, will we get converts? Sure, we always do, a pretty large portion of Republicans are ex-liberals, often very passionate ones. Republicans consistently having a larger proportional share of older voters is likely not caused by republicans registering later, and I know plenty including myself. I know a lot of dedicated and active republicans because I'm really not joking about the meetings, and anecdotally I'd say about a third to a half of them were former liberals.
I can't really think of a specific issue that would drive former Obama supporters to the right, though. It's not like someone who voted for Obama in '08 is suddenly going to go, "You know, I never thought about it before, but Planned Parenthood IS a symbol of utter depravity in our nation!"
The only thing I could think of would be under the general heading of "Taxes/The Economy," but there's two problems with that:
In terms of liberal converts Tax/Economy usually doesn't play into it much. In my experience the most common is getting fed up with one's allies. Some learn to cope with it, some just drop out of active interest, some flee to the Greens or Libertarians, but an awful lot make their way to the GOP, and the flow is mostly one way.
1) It's hard to be passionate and informed about the economy in any specific sense. Most people do not have economics degrees (including me), so people's opinions tend to get boiled down to sound bites such as "The 1%," "Trickle-Down," and all the rest. That is, if The Economy is an important political issue to you, you're unlikely to switch sides, simply because you don't know enough about it.
Fortunately high unemployment numbers and record deficits make for short and clear sound bites.
2) The Republicans HAD their taxes/economy plan implemented, under Bush, and suddenly we were in a recession. I'm not saying that Bush caused the recession. I am saying, though, that it'd be hard to get someone to switch from Obama to the GOP on the basis of the economy, because we just HAD 8 years of Republican economic policies, and it didn't seem to have a noticeable benefit.
Discussion of that would take a long, long time, so I'll leave at 'disagree almost entirely' and Bush came in when the economy wasn't too sweet either, one could argue that inherited recession or not, and the Democrats in many ways inherited the recession from themselves, Obama's had 3 years and not only failed to improve things but made them worse. We can discuss the details of that if you want but for our purposes here 'perception' is all that matters and people increasingly see this economy as being in Obama's lap.
So, can you think of anything that would cause someone who voted for Obama in '08 to suddenly go, "Hm, I guess the Republicans were right about that all along?"
Yes, I do actually know several friends or acquaintances off the top of my head who pulled the proverbial lever for him in '08 and are now solidly opposed. The #1 cited reason has typically been "I can't believe I voted for that guy".
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 15/03/2012 at 10:00:26 PM
can *any* republican pose a challenge to obama in november?
14/03/2012 04:06:59 AM
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Yes, absolutely.....
14/03/2012 04:12:30 AM
- 634 Views
"anybody but obama" is not a winning strategy
14/03/2012 02:28:23 PM
- 613 Views
It can definitely work.....don't compare 2012 to 2004.
14/03/2012 02:44:39 PM
- 482 Views
this is why it will be 2004 all over again if romney is nominated
16/03/2012 02:22:26 PM
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It sure as Hell is, as long as the candidate is moderate
14/03/2012 03:04:10 PM
- 726 Views
Did you vote for Obama in 2008?
14/03/2012 03:47:55 PM
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Yes I did. If Romney is the candidate, I will vote Romney this year. *NM*
14/03/2012 08:39:41 PM
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Strongly qualifying your statement really weakens the "anyone". *NM*
14/03/2012 10:14:45 PM
- 345 Views
The statement "anyone but Obama" can be a rallying cry, but only for the right candidates.
16/03/2012 01:47:48 AM
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somehow i don't see romney having much credibility versus obama
16/03/2012 02:16:32 PM
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Spoken like a true Obama partisan
16/03/2012 04:18:21 PM
- 536 Views
actually, i did not vote for obama in 2008 and i won't this time either
17/03/2012 01:02:09 PM
- 565 Views
Sure, if Israel hits Iran and Obama looks weak.
14/03/2012 04:56:23 AM
- 639 Views
i think iran/israel is probably the biggest issue at the moment
14/03/2012 02:25:29 PM
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I would put serious money on an Israeli attack before the election.
14/03/2012 02:56:55 PM
- 634 Views
I know that I would consider voting for Romney
14/03/2012 01:05:47 PM
- 610 Views
If you will pardon an impertinent question: Why?
14/03/2012 03:26:01 PM
- 589 Views
Because Obama is a complete and utter failure.....
14/03/2012 03:44:14 PM
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Again, I get Republicans voting Anybody but Obama, but not how anyone can be comfortable w/ Romney.
14/03/2012 04:06:14 PM
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Pre-convention only the incumbents favorability ratings matter much
14/03/2012 01:19:04 PM
- 624 Views
obama is not popular, but at least he has the ability to organize a national campaign
14/03/2012 02:18:04 PM
- 567 Views
No, the democratic party does, so does the GOP
14/03/2012 03:16:31 PM
- 636 Views
That's true- despite how divisive the primaries seem, the GOP will unite behind the winner
14/03/2012 03:44:16 PM
- 658 Views
Re: That's true- despite how divisive the primaries seem, the GOP will unite behind the winner
14/03/2012 03:59:25 PM
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Actually, my experience has been a lot of libs mean it when they say they will not for anyone.
14/03/2012 04:19:46 PM
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I don't want to grossly over-generalize but there are distinct trends to party demographics
14/03/2012 06:04:09 PM
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I was thinking no, and here's my rationale:
14/03/2012 03:41:21 PM
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Much as it pains me to agree with trzaska, he is absolutely right in this case.
14/03/2012 04:21:43 PM
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Interesting. So you guys are basically saying I'm right, but it might not matter
14/03/2012 04:53:48 PM
- 619 Views
Yeah, pretty much, and I would even say that is the trend in all Dem vs. Rep elections.
14/03/2012 04:59:30 PM
- 648 Views
Yes and no
14/03/2012 06:23:47 PM
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Conservative cookies nomz. But I think you missed my main point...
14/03/2012 07:02:10 PM
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Conservative cookies nomz. But I think you missed my main point...
14/03/2012 07:09:24 PM
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And the cookies are not a lie... at last night's meeting, we had Thin Mints
15/03/2012 09:51:30 PM
- 623 Views
Yeah, I just meant perception
16/03/2012 02:39:30 AM
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One day Republicans and internet trolls alike will learn not to say weird shit to people like me.
15/03/2012 12:30:17 AM
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I like this post.
15/03/2012 08:40:07 PM
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I don't mean to disrespect your seal, but it looks more like a cat. *NM*
15/03/2012 08:52:26 PM
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You've obviously never heard of a kitten seal, Mr. I-Write-An-Animal-Blog. *NM*
15/03/2012 09:38:47 PM
- 332 Views
Maybe it's a leopard seal. That someone put a cat-ear band on. *NM*
15/03/2012 10:07:46 PM
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Does it matter if they do? At this point, does it matter who is president? Probably not.
16/03/2012 02:11:45 AM
- 686 Views