Iconoclasm had nothing to do with the schism whatsoever. Of all the ignorant statements you have made, this ranks among your statements in my language post in terms of the grossness of the errors.
The absolute hands-down leading element of the Schism was the assertion of papal supremacy. The Eastern Churches always held to the position (and still do so hold) that matters of theology could only be resolved by Ecumenical Councils at which the Pope was, at best, primus inter pares. The refusal of the Popes to submit the Western Church to such councils led to a string of disputes.
The first of these disputes was during the papacy of Sergius I over the divergence of Latin usages from those approved by a series of ecumenical councils. None of the usages in question had to do with the veneration of icons, but rather, with matters of the clergy (celibacy vs. the Orthodox mandate that priests with parishes be married), the observation of Lent (Latin Lent was already relaxed from the strictures of the Eastern Great Lent) and the depiction of Christ as the Lamb of God, something that the Eastern Churches found repulsive.
The only dispute that was even remotely related to iconoclasm was the support by Pope Nicolas I of Patriarch Ignatius, who was anti-iconoclast. However, the acts of the Pope were likely encouraged by the Holy Roman Emperor, as the Pope and Patriarch reflected the temporal dispositions of power at the time. When Emperor Basil I assumed the purple, he reinstated Ignatius to improve relations with the West. The position of the Pope was not the deciding factor, and in any event the episode ended with relatively good terms. The only tangential effect that iconoclasm might be said to have on the Schism is that it set a precedent of papal interference in internal affairs of the Eastern Church. However, the reason for the interference had nothing to do with iconoclasm and everything to do with growing pretensions on the part of the Popes to plenary authority over all of the Church, including over the Patriarch and the Eastern Church.
Furthermore, after the iconoclasts were soundly defeated, Rome fell into the decadence of the pornocracy and the cadaver trial after that, and it wasn't until hundreds of years later that Leo IX decided to declare papal primacy and declare that the filioque was an official point of theology, in contradiction of the Great Ecumenical Council of Nicaea.
Even then, the issue was less about the filioque itself (even the present Pope, Benedict XVI, admits that the relationship between the Son and Holy Spirit is a "divine mystery" and it is difficult to argue with certainty about matters so far removed from human understanding) and far more about papal power. In particular, the Eastern and Western Churches disputed authority over dioceses in Southern Italy and the Balkans, and the divergence of usages was becoming very great (the calculation of Easter, choice of liturgical language, type of communion administered to laymen, type of communion bread used, means of making the sign of the cross, facial hair for priests, clerical celibacy in the West opposed to mandatory marriage of parish priests in the East, order of church services, etc.). The failure of the Western Church to understand Greek, and of the Eastern Church to understand Latin, made communication even more difficult and led to misunderstandings that the Pope capitalized on to drive home his position.
In short, iconoclasm had no direct bearing on the Schism and only a tangential influence by accident.
The absolute hands-down leading element of the Schism was the assertion of papal supremacy. The Eastern Churches always held to the position (and still do so hold) that matters of theology could only be resolved by Ecumenical Councils at which the Pope was, at best, primus inter pares. The refusal of the Popes to submit the Western Church to such councils led to a string of disputes.
The first of these disputes was during the papacy of Sergius I over the divergence of Latin usages from those approved by a series of ecumenical councils. None of the usages in question had to do with the veneration of icons, but rather, with matters of the clergy (celibacy vs. the Orthodox mandate that priests with parishes be married), the observation of Lent (Latin Lent was already relaxed from the strictures of the Eastern Great Lent) and the depiction of Christ as the Lamb of God, something that the Eastern Churches found repulsive.
The only dispute that was even remotely related to iconoclasm was the support by Pope Nicolas I of Patriarch Ignatius, who was anti-iconoclast. However, the acts of the Pope were likely encouraged by the Holy Roman Emperor, as the Pope and Patriarch reflected the temporal dispositions of power at the time. When Emperor Basil I assumed the purple, he reinstated Ignatius to improve relations with the West. The position of the Pope was not the deciding factor, and in any event the episode ended with relatively good terms. The only tangential effect that iconoclasm might be said to have on the Schism is that it set a precedent of papal interference in internal affairs of the Eastern Church. However, the reason for the interference had nothing to do with iconoclasm and everything to do with growing pretensions on the part of the Popes to plenary authority over all of the Church, including over the Patriarch and the Eastern Church.
Furthermore, after the iconoclasts were soundly defeated, Rome fell into the decadence of the pornocracy and the cadaver trial after that, and it wasn't until hundreds of years later that Leo IX decided to declare papal primacy and declare that the filioque was an official point of theology, in contradiction of the Great Ecumenical Council of Nicaea.
Even then, the issue was less about the filioque itself (even the present Pope, Benedict XVI, admits that the relationship between the Son and Holy Spirit is a "divine mystery" and it is difficult to argue with certainty about matters so far removed from human understanding) and far more about papal power. In particular, the Eastern and Western Churches disputed authority over dioceses in Southern Italy and the Balkans, and the divergence of usages was becoming very great (the calculation of Easter, choice of liturgical language, type of communion administered to laymen, type of communion bread used, means of making the sign of the cross, facial hair for priests, clerical celibacy in the West opposed to mandatory marriage of parish priests in the East, order of church services, etc.). The failure of the Western Church to understand Greek, and of the Eastern Church to understand Latin, made communication even more difficult and led to misunderstandings that the Pope capitalized on to drive home his position.
In short, iconoclasm had no direct bearing on the Schism and only a tangential influence by accident.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
Atheism: The Iconoclasm of the West?
10/03/2012 05:42:56 AM
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I think about as highly of athiesm as I do of christianity. *NM*
10/03/2012 05:54:20 AM
- 360 Views
I would chide you on that basis for having a love/hate relationship with God, but who does not?
10/03/2012 06:05:11 AM
- 536 Views
If the divine made men...
10/03/2012 06:27:42 AM
- 527 Views
True, but by the same token, in denying our nature we deny the divine.
10/03/2012 06:57:40 AM
- 545 Views
I was actually just saying in Skype this is the first post you've made in a long time I've enjoyed.
10/03/2012 07:02:56 AM
- 563 Views
But you do comparable things all the time!
10/03/2012 08:35:31 AM
- 759 Views
You've made this analogy before and it's still a bad one, those aren't comparable
10/03/2012 03:43:08 PM
- 647 Views
You said what I was thinking far more respectfully than I probably would have.
11/03/2012 12:14:55 AM
- 610 Views
You're right and wrong.
10/03/2012 05:09:32 PM
- 954 Views
Re: You're right and wrong.
11/03/2012 12:28:25 AM
- 866 Views
Nope, Buddhists are explicitly atheist and also explicitly Ontologically engaged
11/03/2012 01:39:20 AM
- 861 Views
Actually, Buddhists are not explicitly atheist in the conventional sense of the world.
11/03/2012 02:42:36 AM
- 666 Views
I guess it is that old impersonalism that seems the great disappointment in most Eastern religions.
11/03/2012 04:48:54 AM
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What you talkin' 'bout, Willis? *NM*
10/03/2012 06:29:35 PM
- 285 Views
I think he's saying that most arguments used on behalf of Atheism actually come from the Bible.
10/03/2012 06:58:50 PM
- 649 Views
Basically what Dan said; atheism as iconoclasm sans icons (unless we count religion as symbolism.)
11/03/2012 12:46:52 AM
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What exactly do you mean by "The irreparable damage it inflicted in the Great Schism"?
10/03/2012 07:57:59 PM
- 733 Views
That Byzantiums iconoclasm was one of the many wedges between it and Rome that led to the Schism.
11/03/2012 12:27:05 AM
- 652 Views
Bull. Shit.
11/03/2012 01:54:07 AM
- 730 Views
I did not say it was decisive, but that it did irreparable damage to the relationship.
11/03/2012 04:23:43 AM
- 741 Views
Bull. Shit.
11/03/2012 04:30:08 AM
- 609 Views
It is not like I just pulled it out of my rear, any more than my HS history text or Wikipedia did.
11/03/2012 04:57:31 AM
- 686 Views
Bull. Shit.
11/03/2012 05:14:01 AM
- 760 Views
Irreparable damage is damage that cannot be repaired, not necessarily serious or fatal.
11/03/2012 10:34:57 AM
- 829 Views
Mierda.del.Toro
11/03/2012 12:36:59 PM
- 709 Views
1969 may be "sometime back" in Roman Catholic history,but is ~a millenium after the time in question
12/03/2012 05:47:11 PM
- 964 Views
You really must get steamed by anyone calling you out on your hyberbolic comments
12/03/2012 06:55:06 PM
- 826 Views
On the contrary, I am not the one screaming "bullshit" in as many languages as possible.
13/03/2012 12:07:54 AM
- 868 Views
ο κοπρος. του ταυρου.
11/03/2012 02:19:11 PM
- 793 Views
Very edifying; can you do Mandarin or Swahili next?
12/03/2012 05:47:23 PM
- 695 Views
No. Even English seems to be beyond your grasp.
12/03/2012 06:29:50 PM
- 604 Views
Citing scripture does not justify telling me to kill myself.
13/03/2012 12:08:02 AM
- 739 Views
Give it up already. You are wrong.
12/03/2012 12:53:37 AM
- 912 Views
I will do the former at least; pretty sure this "discussion" has reached rock bottom.
13/03/2012 12:12:46 AM
- 554 Views
More or less your last line
11/03/2012 01:37:42 AM
- 629 Views
That is a broader argument, but more consistent with iconoclasms established meaning.
11/03/2012 05:12:12 AM
- 743 Views
Would you include the iconoclasm that Joel cites in the canonical Judeo-Christian tradition as well?
11/03/2012 12:44:49 PM
- 611 Views