I did not realize lack of a parliamentary majority dictated his cabinet.
Joel Send a noteboard - 09/03/2012 12:27:31 AM
Specifically, what you said about the French presidency being a far more powerful position if his party also has a parliamentary majority. The US president is in a similar, if not identical, position (hence Obama screwed the pooch in not taking advantage of the Democratic House and Senate majorities while he still had them.)
Indeed. Still, there's a big difference in the sense that the US president can always appoint his own cabinet, regardless of his party's position in Congress. A French president can indeed appoint a PM pretty much at will if his party controls the parliament, and has at least a strong voice in who will get which ministry, but if his party doesn't control the parliament, whoever does (or can create a coalition that does) can become PM and the president's say in the division of the ministries becomes essentially non-existent. At that point the president is left with little concrete power, and reduced to much the same position as the kings and queens of constitutional monarchies, or the president of e.g. Germany. He has a bit more power than those - I believe he still has the nuclear access codes, and might even have a veto of some sort - but not much more.
Do NOT provoke the guy with the Football. That situation does make the presidency rather anemic absent a parliamentary majority though; unless he does, in fact, retain veto power it is hard to see how it is anything more than a purely ceremonial position.
I suppose it must be possible for a president with a majority to annoy his own party so much that they decide to stop following his lead, vote in their own PM and bring him into much the same position, but I don't believe that has happened yet...
Without knowing more, my guess would be no one has enjoyed single party rule long enough for discontent with the party leader to reach that level and/or MPs lack latitude to secure re-election by opposing their party when constituents do. Honestly, if not for two party rule I am certain the party would have expelled many "Democratic" Congressmen long ago; as it is, Dems live in fear of that because nearly everyone who leaves the party does so as a preface to joining the GOP.
It is more a matter of the PM being both a member of the legislative majority AND head of state. In some ways that gives Britains PM greater (if more precarious) power than the US president. The PMs situation seems more like Obamas before 2010 or Clintons before 1994; he may need the Whip to keep a few unruly party members in line, but seldom faces an openly hostile majority (if only because such majorities tend to relieve him of that burden, by bringing down his government. )
Very true. Minority governments can happen, but they tend not to last very long as it only takes one lost vote of non-confidence to put an end to things. Yet another difference with the US, that... a PM can be dismissed by a simple vote of non-confidence in the House, at any time, if a majority can be found for it.
True, but both our approach and theirs are something of a mixed blessing. Impeachment DOES provide recourse for removing a president prior to the next election (one can only imagine how American government would have fared had Nixon been able to serve the last three years of his term after Watergate was discovered.) Unfortunately, since party tickets were only a constitutional amendment after the impeachment process was codified, its effectiveness has been diminished. Even when the president faced impeachment for covering up an attempt to rig the election AND the VP resigned amid bribery charges, Nixon just adroitly appointed Ford to succeed Agnew, resigned and received a full pardon for "all crimes he may have committed" (a blank check that went far beyond Watergate; that language from a member of the Warren Commission is very intriguing.) Even in that extreme case very little changed, and in any successful impeachment the presidents deputy would simply assume the presidency in his place.
On the other hand, perhaps that is well, since the head of state can only be removed for "high crimes and misdemeanors" rather than partisan or policy reasons. Removing Chamberlain on the eve of WWII was a necessity; removing Churchill in the middle of it would have been a disaster—but perfectly feasible under federal law.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 09/03/2012 at 12:29:35 AM
Now That Romney Is Officially the Republican Presidential Nominee: Pick the President!
29/02/2012 08:29:02 PM
- 1240 Views
I agree Romney will be the candidate.
29/02/2012 08:54:52 PM
- 639 Views
I would say the math favors Romney over Obama, but it will probably be close either way.
01/03/2012 03:37:52 PM
- 685 Views
I have never understood the point of the Electoral College.
29/02/2012 11:39:11 PM
- 688 Views
You don't think like a politician then
01/03/2012 12:38:36 AM
- 730 Views
I certainly hadn't considered much of that. I'm glad you posted it. *NM*
01/03/2012 07:15:03 AM
- 310 Views
I also have not seen most of that mentioned in the popular vs. electoral debate.
01/03/2012 02:34:31 PM
- 615 Views
a bit simplistic and unrealistic
02/03/2012 11:44:02 PM
- 658 Views
When illustrating a point realism is not required and simplicity is a plus
03/03/2012 03:04:26 AM
- 672 Views
I have a couple quibbles.
03/03/2012 05:23:46 AM
- 699 Views
Oh, certainly, I'm over-generalizing but I was already getting long-winded
03/03/2012 06:52:04 AM
- 662 Views
What a bunch of waffle!
03/03/2012 10:47:19 AM
- 799 Views
Also I don't like this refrain that implies only the POTUS vote matters
03/03/2012 03:29:58 AM
- 817 Views
IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college.
03/03/2012 05:57:41 AM
- 619 Views
Re: IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college.
03/03/2012 07:02:30 AM
- 656 Views
*is learning*
04/03/2012 09:49:42 PM
- 647 Views
Re: *is learning*
04/03/2012 09:56:16 PM
- 661 Views
Re: *is learning*
05/03/2012 12:08:08 AM
- 699 Views
You could imitate the French.
07/03/2012 10:40:16 PM
- 628 Views
That seems... unlikely....
08/03/2012 03:03:54 PM
- 635 Views
It does, doesn't it?
08/03/2012 06:11:08 PM
- 831 Views
After I thought about it more, I realized France and the US are not so different in that respect.
08/03/2012 08:51:03 PM
- 611 Views
More similar than the other major Western democracies at least, agreed.
08/03/2012 09:32:55 PM
- 588 Views
I did not realize lack of a parliamentary majority dictated his cabinet.
09/03/2012 12:27:31 AM
- 668 Views
I don't know much about Norwegian politics, but you seem to be wrong.
03/03/2012 06:18:08 PM
- 668 Views
Do you happen to have that link, please?
03/03/2012 06:46:31 PM
- 550 Views
Sure.
03/03/2012 06:58:07 PM
- 722 Views
Guess we did not read far enough.
03/03/2012 10:38:07 PM
- 668 Views
Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics...
03/03/2012 11:49:44 PM
- 870 Views
Hey, man, I am an AMERICAN: I do not HAVE to know ANYTHING!
04/03/2012 11:46:57 PM
- 892 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics...
05/03/2012 06:56:24 AM
- 672 Views
The thing is, regions often have national relevance far greater than their populations would suggest
05/03/2012 10:21:26 AM
- 620 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics...
08/03/2012 07:11:12 PM
- 621 Views
Many valid reasons, including those Isaac cited.
02/03/2012 02:26:37 AM
- 768 Views
Most states are ignored anyway
02/03/2012 11:56:12 PM
- 845 Views
Only because and to the extent they have already committed themselves.
03/03/2012 03:41:39 AM
- 692 Views
Why would we do something logical? Dude, you're utterly ridiculous. *NM*
05/03/2012 04:53:38 PM
- 365 Views
I'm kind of sad- does this mean Santorum won't be providing wonderful sound bites anymore?
01/03/2012 02:22:31 PM
- 613 Views
Romney or Obama, either way, America loses. *NM*
02/03/2012 01:10:26 AM
- 438 Views
Hard to dispute that either; six of one, half a dozen of the other.
02/03/2012 01:38:07 AM
- 590 Views
I'd agree hope and change was extremely unrealistic
02/03/2012 11:58:57 PM
- 586 Views
Well, you know my story there; I voted for Obama and got Hillary (at best.)
03/03/2012 01:43:20 AM
- 605 Views
Update: Despite rules requiring they be split, the MI GOP is giving Romney BOTH statewide delegates.
02/03/2012 11:10:56 PM
- 696 Views
Romney is damaged
02/03/2012 11:27:33 PM
- 602 Views
Obama is rather damaged also; it will probably come down to FL and OH, yet again.
03/03/2012 02:23:53 AM
- 705 Views
I'm hoping for Rubio as VP... then FL probably won't matter
03/03/2012 04:28:08 AM
- 592 Views
You should put that on your license plates.
03/03/2012 06:41:34 AM
- 716 Views
And what are you basing all of this on?
03/03/2012 09:54:06 PM
- 704 Views
The closeness of several states when Obama was far more popular, and UTs heavily Mormon neighbors.
03/03/2012 11:44:06 PM
- 651 Views
Wrong
04/03/2012 08:08:56 AM
- 777 Views
Higher turnout magnifies the Mormon effect.
04/03/2012 08:08:09 PM
- 813 Views
Your reasoning is flawed and if you can't see it there is no hope for you
05/03/2012 11:39:04 PM
- 722 Views
Yeah, I think we had that conversation already, several times, in fact.
07/03/2012 05:36:45 AM
- 556 Views
Do you have any knowledge of statistics at all?
07/03/2012 09:04:15 PM
- 717 Views
I hate this message board
07/03/2012 09:06:30 PM
- 511 Views
It would probably help if you deleted the stuff from two, three posts back?
07/03/2012 09:25:40 PM
- 628 Views