Active Users:1181 Time:22/11/2024 10:32:20 PM
Re: Hey, man, I am an AMERICAN: I do not HAVE to know ANYTHING! Legolas Send a noteboard - 05/03/2012 11:14:42 PM
It is actively discouraged in much of the country, and some consider it grounds for revoking citizenship. ;)

I noticed. :P
Yeah, I remember you mentioning that, but I was thinking in terms of the varying degree to which the royal prerogative is restricted, and how much its remaining extent is real vs. nominal. From what I recall reading, Gladstone was once unable to resume the office of PM simply because Queen Victoria detested him, so even as late as the Nineteenth Century Britains PM very much required the monarchs approval. As I understand things, the outgoing Norwegian PM recommends a replacement for the king to appoint, but whether rejecting that replacement would mean a constitutional crisis orsimply nominating another I can only guess. It is kind of bizarre to think of the king as the only citizen with NO franchise.

Yeah, those were different days... but they are well behind us. Like I said, I don't know much about Norwegian politics but I strongly doubt Haakon has the power to reject a PM who has the support of a majority in parliament.
Well, extreme positions are typically unwise, especially in politics. Your point on stability and multi-party viability is well taken (Isaac also referenced that in defence of Americas system, as you probably noticed.)

I don't really know that that's the kind of thing your maxim about extremes applies to... and Dom did a pretty good job there of undermining my entire point by making Canada sound even worse than Israel and the Netherlands in terms of stability. Or as bad, anyway. Still, in most cases the rule applies. I'm not sure there's any single democracy system that is really superior to the others - it depends on your country to begin with, and they've all had their good and bad days.
America does have a history of pivotal exceptions to the rule that regional single member districts deter multi-party states though. In the years just prior to the Civil War, regional differences over slaverys expansion fatally split the Democratic Party that had enjoyed single party national rule a generation earlier, and that dynamic resurfaced a century later when Strom Thurmond and, later, George Wallace carried several states as Dixiecrats. Progressive Republicans under TR and then Robert La Follette (both of whom wore the "Happy Warrior" moniker in succession) similarly undermined that party in the early Twentieth Century, and the combined appeals of both threatened Trumans 1948 election as much as the Republican nominee Thomas Dewey did. And, of course, without the Greens Gore would have easily won NH as well as FL, making either state an acceptable loss by itself (which would have been historic in that a president would have been elected despite losing 2/3 in FL, PA and OH.) Establishing strong regional bases from which to build national support—and recruit experienced candidates—is still the only viable option for American third parties. Failure to do that in the West, South and Midwest is probably what doomed the Reform Party whose spoiler effect was indispensable to Clintons election.

I'm well aware, but as you point out yourself, those exceptions all fit one or both of the categories of exceptions predicted in the model: brief-lived third parties, and regional third parties. The US is probably the strongest two-party duopoly in world politics - after all, the UK does have a serious nation-wide third party that has been around ever since the days when it was the second or indeed first party, and as for Canada, well, see Dom's smackdown of my post. :P It must have to do with force of habit as well as some smaller details (gerrymandering and the inherently two-party system of your Congress come to mind).
I see; that is definitely a big feature I was completely unaware of in the European right. I guess it makes sense; many Republicans have for decades sneered at the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party trumpeting its civil rights accomplishments despite slavish devotion to unions in many places saturated with open racism and sexism. The big difference is that an economically liberal right IS almost totally foreign to my experience. The closest America has ever come to that was Father Coughlins public populism and clandestine support for Hitler. His contemporary, Huey Long, is probably most associated with "American fascism," but, being elected governor and then senator in the Deep South despite railing against poll taxes and other racial inequality, he mainly illustrates the American rights confusion over the differences between communism and socialism vs. fascism.

I would think it's an important thing to be aware of, even for an American, at least if that American is going to be facing "Hitler was a leftie" arguments on a regular basis.

The relation between the American right and the European far-right is interesting to follow, sometimes - the way the European far-right leaders are sometimes embraced in America and sometimes spat out, depending on the subject and the circumstances. Mostly they are ignored, though, which is probably for the best.
I tend to, but should not, take for granted that supporting social programs that benefit urban and labor constituents precludes racist agendas. With the notable exception of Jews, multiculturalism strikes me as a more novel issue for Europe than in America, and the welfare state far less so. Partisan reflections of that are natural.

Definitely so - large-scale multiculturalism in its current sense, in many though not all European countries, dates back only to the sixties, exactly when the American civil rights movement was breaking down (institutional) racism in the US.

And no, you definitely should not take that for granted.

Seven seems like a good number to me; five would probably be ideal, but any multipartisan environment favors the development of one or two niche parties catering to regional or other narrow interests. They are not terribly counterproductive if they align almost entirely with one of the broad major parties on all other issues. More importantly, they ensure issues vital but specific to key demographics receive recognition both directly, through their party, and indirectly, through the influence its kingmaking ability has on coalitions.

Fair enough. Belgium would only really have five or six if not for that little detail of having two of each political stripe what with the language thing. Much as I hate to say anything that might make Belgium sound like an example of good politics... :P
Reply to message
Now That Romney Is Officially the Republican Presidential Nominee: Pick the President! - 29/02/2012 08:29:02 PM 1245 Views
I have never understood the point of the Electoral College. - 29/02/2012 11:39:11 PM 693 Views
You don't think like a politician then - 01/03/2012 12:38:36 AM 733 Views
I also have not seen most of that mentioned in the popular vs. electoral debate. - 01/03/2012 02:34:31 PM 619 Views
what about one vote one value? - 02/03/2012 11:51:32 PM 703 Views
That has not really changed. - 03/03/2012 03:30:34 AM 885 Views
a bit simplistic and unrealistic - 02/03/2012 11:44:02 PM 661 Views
When illustrating a point realism is not required and simplicity is a plus - 03/03/2012 03:04:26 AM 676 Views
I have a couple quibbles. - 03/03/2012 05:23:46 AM 702 Views
Oh, certainly, I'm over-generalizing but I was already getting long-winded - 03/03/2012 06:52:04 AM 667 Views
I hate when people do that. - 05/03/2012 09:49:36 AM 646 Views
What a bunch of waffle! - 03/03/2012 10:47:19 AM 802 Views
First you complain of simplicity then of my lack of brevity? - 03/03/2012 11:18:11 AM 597 Views
A simplistic argument doesn't mean it's brief *NM* - 03/03/2012 09:55:51 PM 329 Views
Also I don't like this refrain that implies only the POTUS vote matters - 03/03/2012 03:29:58 AM 822 Views
IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college. - 03/03/2012 05:57:41 AM 623 Views
Re: IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college. - 03/03/2012 07:02:30 AM 660 Views
*is learning* - 04/03/2012 09:49:42 PM 652 Views
Re: *is learning* - 04/03/2012 09:56:16 PM 665 Views
To the extent I can (yet again) claim to speak for Europeans... - 04/03/2012 10:33:01 PM 640 Views
I've fairly limited exposure and that from some years back - 04/03/2012 11:35:12 PM 700 Views
Re: *is learning* - 05/03/2012 12:08:08 AM 702 Views
You could imitate the French. - 07/03/2012 10:40:16 PM 634 Views
That seems... unlikely.... - 08/03/2012 03:03:54 PM 636 Views
I don't know much about Norwegian politics, but you seem to be wrong. - 03/03/2012 06:18:08 PM 671 Views
Do you happen to have that link, please? - 03/03/2012 06:46:31 PM 555 Views
Sure. - 03/03/2012 06:58:07 PM 727 Views
Guess we did not read far enough. - 03/03/2012 10:38:07 PM 670 Views
Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 03/03/2012 11:49:44 PM 873 Views
Hey, man, I am an AMERICAN: I do not HAVE to know ANYTHING! - 04/03/2012 11:46:57 PM 893 Views
Re: Hey, man, I am an AMERICAN: I do not HAVE to know ANYTHING! - 05/03/2012 11:14:42 PM 1207 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 05/03/2012 06:56:24 AM 674 Views
Fascinating. - 05/03/2012 10:52:32 PM 654 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 08/03/2012 07:11:12 PM 624 Views
Many valid reasons, including those Isaac cited. - 02/03/2012 02:26:37 AM 771 Views
Most states are ignored anyway - 02/03/2012 11:56:12 PM 849 Views
Why would we do something logical? Dude, you're utterly ridiculous. *NM* - 05/03/2012 04:53:38 PM 365 Views
I'm kind of sad- does this mean Santorum won't be providing wonderful sound bites anymore? - 01/03/2012 02:22:31 PM 613 Views
Nothing has shut him up yet, why should this? *NM* - 01/03/2012 05:27:30 PM 348 Views
Maybe he'll pull a Palin and go touring around the country *NM* - 01/03/2012 07:06:02 PM 318 Views
No, it probably means we will get more and worse than ever. - 01/03/2012 11:25:25 PM 793 Views
Romney or Obama, either way, America loses. *NM* - 02/03/2012 01:10:26 AM 439 Views
Hard to dispute that either; six of one, half a dozen of the other. - 02/03/2012 01:38:07 AM 595 Views
Couldn't agree more *NM* - 02/03/2012 06:52:51 PM 357 Views
It reminds me of when Denver backed into the NFL playoffs. - 02/03/2012 09:36:13 PM 583 Views
I'd agree hope and change was extremely unrealistic - 02/03/2012 11:58:57 PM 588 Views
Romney is damaged - 02/03/2012 11:27:33 PM 606 Views
Obama is rather damaged also; it will probably come down to FL and OH, yet again. - 03/03/2012 02:23:53 AM 710 Views
I'm hoping for Rubio as VP... then FL probably won't matter - 03/03/2012 04:28:08 AM 595 Views
You should put that on your license plates. - 03/03/2012 06:41:34 AM 719 Views
Re: You should put that on your license plates. - 03/03/2012 06:51:00 AM 664 Views
Ax murderers are people, too! - 04/03/2012 08:23:41 PM 616 Views
And what are you basing all of this on? - 03/03/2012 09:54:06 PM 706 Views
The closeness of several states when Obama was far more popular, and UTs heavily Mormon neighbors. - 03/03/2012 11:44:06 PM 658 Views
Wrong - 04/03/2012 08:08:56 AM 782 Views
Higher turnout magnifies the Mormon effect. - 04/03/2012 08:08:09 PM 817 Views
Your reasoning is flawed and if you can't see it there is no hope for you - 05/03/2012 11:39:04 PM 723 Views
Yeah, I think we had that conversation already, several times, in fact. - 07/03/2012 05:36:45 AM 561 Views
Do you have any knowledge of statistics at all? - 07/03/2012 09:04:15 PM 719 Views
I hate this message board - 07/03/2012 09:06:30 PM 514 Views
Some, though it is far from exhaustive. - 08/03/2012 02:29:06 PM 699 Views

Reply to Message