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I call them both agnostic, but the former leans toward atheism while the latter has no lean. Joel Send a noteboard - 05/03/2012 10:53:02 AM
"I believe there isn't a god, though of course it's possible I could be wrong since nobody knows everything. I consider it pretty unlikely though, and I'm going to live my life as though there's no god until I see some decent evidence to the contrary."

And if you call it "agnostic", then how do you differentiate it from this position?:

"I have no idea what to think about the existence of a god: maybe there is, maybe there ain't. I expect we'll never know for sure."

Essentially, you're insisting that you don't really believe something if you admit even a faint possibility that you might be wrong. I hear this a lot, and I think it stems from failure to understand that in religions, unswerving belief is seen as a good thing, whereas for scientists it's a bad thing.

Like I said, it has to do with nothing but the difference between certainty and probability. It is the difference between knowing Schrödingers Cat is dead/alive, believing it is and having no position. Only the claims to knowledge represents firm statements; the beliefs absent certainty, like the absent belief, are only special cases of the general one: Uncertainty. Any degree of probability represents some uncertainty; only certainty represents certainty.

Claiming absolute certainty when none is impossible is very BAD for metaphysics, and physics remains ultimately just a special case of metaphysics. It is an empirical concrete metaphysics, and works quite well if we accept concrete empirical premises. Unfortunately, those premises are no more absolutely proven than any other (though a greater preponderance of evidence exists for them than nearly any other) and are practically useless in the real areas neither concrete nor empirical.

Unswerving belief (i.e. absolute certainty, especially absent absolute proof) is, as you say, bad for science. Atheism is such an unswerving belief; saying, "I believe there is no deity, and will live my life accordingly, but I might be wrong, and will reverse my position if (and only if) presented sufficient evidence of that," is agnosticism. That, and the impossibility of proving a negative, is why agnosticism is the rational position absent convincing evidence for a deity. There is a reason widespread erosion of religious belief did not instantly and automatically lead to widespread atheism: Because knowing my hand does not conceal a black pawn is not the same as knowing it DOES conceal a white one, or nothing; either is possible, as are many other possibilities beside those.

"Strong/weak" or "positive/negative" are far more sensible labels for agnosticism than for atheism. Agnosticism admits a gray scale atheism does not.
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This message last edited by Joel on 05/03/2012 at 10:54:48 AM
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Do you know the best way to anger an atheist? - 28/02/2012 07:10:57 PM 1952 Views
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What you're doing there is defining "atheist" and "agnostic" in a way that suits you, but... - 29/02/2012 11:50:27 AM 918 Views
What I am doing is using the terms as they were universally used until about the time I was born. - 05/03/2012 01:11:21 AM 1040 Views
So what do you call this position?: - 05/03/2012 08:43:20 AM 1011 Views
I call them both agnostic, but the former leans toward atheism while the latter has no lean. - 05/03/2012 10:53:02 AM 1078 Views
See, there you go again, defining atheism in such a way as to make it sound ridiculous. - 05/03/2012 11:21:17 AM 892 Views
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Oh really? The guy who was doing it to annoy people? - 07/03/2012 09:53:38 PM 996 Views
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I snerfled. *NM* - 29/02/2012 05:12:32 PM 493 Views
Re: That's it? *NM* - 01/03/2012 06:33:48 AM 549 Views
Re: Do you know the best way to anger an atheist? - 02/03/2012 01:47:03 AM 944 Views

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