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Re: *is learning* Joel Send a noteboard - 05/03/2012 12:08:08 AM
Oh, I'm more familiar and confused by various European systems then I like to be, I made an effort to figure them out and keep up while I was stationed in Germany, I eventually gave up in favor of the newspaper with the naked chicks in it. Between language and culture barrier I gave of up on trying to figure out anyone besides the UK.

Thanks to some helpful direction from Legolas it now seems to me the federal approach in Europe generally and Norway particularly is not that "foreign" to Americans (see what I did there? ;)) The mechanics are very different in many cases, but the objective is nearly the same, and involves a certain degree of apportionment by region as well as population. My biggest concern, that national proportional representation denied non-urban citizens their own federal representatives, seems to be groundless.

I don't think any of the countries there have identical systems anyway, anymore than the states do but with even more diversity of structure.

That seems so, and the comparison apt. The states at least had to develop governmental structures in compliance and coordination with federal law, and the constituents largely shared the same national reference frame. Government in each European nation developed with far more independence of conditions in surrounding countries, which were often very different. Hence France spent centuries developing one of the most autocratic monarchies in Europe as Britain and Austria developed two of the least autocratic right next door.

After that we are just back to debating whether the head of government should be chosen by a direct popular vote or by popularly elected representatives, and it is rather ridiculous for people using the latter method to criticize America for not doing the former. Charity begins at home, and all that. ;)

Criticizing American politics is a planetary pastime particularly popular in Europe. I don't think it would really matter if they had legitimate grounds or not. Mostly, for us, it comes down to not wanting a single person with a lot of power in charge and not in a position to grab more, no kings, if POTUS or his foreign equivalent is the only person elected by the entire country in a totally popular vote it's very hard to resist slow power grabs, alternatively one elected by the legislature really can't grab power but my also be fairly useless as a check on them. I like our reasonably balanced method of doing that, not perfect but what is?

The validity of the complaint matters a great deal to whether we or anyone should credit it; in this case, that means we should not. There is a good argument for Norway using leveling seats and extra seats for specific regions (they do not repeat a re-apportionment nightmare in 50 states each decade) to distribute power and prevent individual tyrants. There is an argument for Britain doing so by essentially making the Speaker of the House also President (though if anything that just unwisely concentrates power.) There is NO argument America should elect the president by direct national popular vote like Britain, because neither it nor any European country of which I am aware does so.
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Now That Romney Is Officially the Republican Presidential Nominee: Pick the President! - 29/02/2012 08:29:02 PM 1261 Views
I have never understood the point of the Electoral College. - 29/02/2012 11:39:11 PM 702 Views
You don't think like a politician then - 01/03/2012 12:38:36 AM 744 Views
I also have not seen most of that mentioned in the popular vs. electoral debate. - 01/03/2012 02:34:31 PM 630 Views
what about one vote one value? - 02/03/2012 11:51:32 PM 714 Views
That has not really changed. - 03/03/2012 03:30:34 AM 899 Views
a bit simplistic and unrealistic - 02/03/2012 11:44:02 PM 672 Views
When illustrating a point realism is not required and simplicity is a plus - 03/03/2012 03:04:26 AM 689 Views
I have a couple quibbles. - 03/03/2012 05:23:46 AM 716 Views
Oh, certainly, I'm over-generalizing but I was already getting long-winded - 03/03/2012 06:52:04 AM 676 Views
I hate when people do that. - 05/03/2012 09:49:36 AM 658 Views
What a bunch of waffle! - 03/03/2012 10:47:19 AM 820 Views
First you complain of simplicity then of my lack of brevity? - 03/03/2012 11:18:11 AM 607 Views
A simplistic argument doesn't mean it's brief *NM* - 03/03/2012 09:55:51 PM 336 Views
Also I don't like this refrain that implies only the POTUS vote matters - 03/03/2012 03:29:58 AM 833 Views
IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college. - 03/03/2012 05:57:41 AM 633 Views
Re: IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college. - 03/03/2012 07:02:30 AM 670 Views
*is learning* - 04/03/2012 09:49:42 PM 662 Views
Re: *is learning* - 04/03/2012 09:56:16 PM 675 Views
To the extent I can (yet again) claim to speak for Europeans... - 04/03/2012 10:33:01 PM 651 Views
I've fairly limited exposure and that from some years back - 04/03/2012 11:35:12 PM 712 Views
Re: *is learning* - 05/03/2012 12:08:08 AM 716 Views
You could imitate the French. - 07/03/2012 10:40:16 PM 649 Views
That seems... unlikely.... - 08/03/2012 03:03:54 PM 650 Views
I don't know much about Norwegian politics, but you seem to be wrong. - 03/03/2012 06:18:08 PM 689 Views
Do you happen to have that link, please? - 03/03/2012 06:46:31 PM 566 Views
Sure. - 03/03/2012 06:58:07 PM 740 Views
Guess we did not read far enough. - 03/03/2012 10:38:07 PM 683 Views
Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 03/03/2012 11:49:44 PM 887 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 05/03/2012 06:56:24 AM 683 Views
Fascinating. - 05/03/2012 10:52:32 PM 668 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 08/03/2012 07:11:12 PM 634 Views
Many valid reasons, including those Isaac cited. - 02/03/2012 02:26:37 AM 784 Views
Most states are ignored anyway - 02/03/2012 11:56:12 PM 860 Views
Why would we do something logical? Dude, you're utterly ridiculous. *NM* - 05/03/2012 04:53:38 PM 372 Views
I'm kind of sad- does this mean Santorum won't be providing wonderful sound bites anymore? - 01/03/2012 02:22:31 PM 624 Views
Nothing has shut him up yet, why should this? *NM* - 01/03/2012 05:27:30 PM 355 Views
Maybe he'll pull a Palin and go touring around the country *NM* - 01/03/2012 07:06:02 PM 323 Views
No, it probably means we will get more and worse than ever. - 01/03/2012 11:25:25 PM 804 Views
Romney or Obama, either way, America loses. *NM* - 02/03/2012 01:10:26 AM 448 Views
Hard to dispute that either; six of one, half a dozen of the other. - 02/03/2012 01:38:07 AM 605 Views
Couldn't agree more *NM* - 02/03/2012 06:52:51 PM 363 Views
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I'd agree hope and change was extremely unrealistic - 02/03/2012 11:58:57 PM 603 Views
Romney is damaged - 02/03/2012 11:27:33 PM 618 Views
Obama is rather damaged also; it will probably come down to FL and OH, yet again. - 03/03/2012 02:23:53 AM 724 Views
I'm hoping for Rubio as VP... then FL probably won't matter - 03/03/2012 04:28:08 AM 606 Views
You should put that on your license plates. - 03/03/2012 06:41:34 AM 728 Views
Re: You should put that on your license plates. - 03/03/2012 06:51:00 AM 677 Views
Ax murderers are people, too! - 04/03/2012 08:23:41 PM 629 Views
And what are you basing all of this on? - 03/03/2012 09:54:06 PM 719 Views
The closeness of several states when Obama was far more popular, and UTs heavily Mormon neighbors. - 03/03/2012 11:44:06 PM 673 Views
Wrong - 04/03/2012 08:08:56 AM 790 Views
Higher turnout magnifies the Mormon effect. - 04/03/2012 08:08:09 PM 829 Views
Your reasoning is flawed and if you can't see it there is no hope for you - 05/03/2012 11:39:04 PM 735 Views
Yeah, I think we had that conversation already, several times, in fact. - 07/03/2012 05:36:45 AM 571 Views
Do you have any knowledge of statistics at all? - 07/03/2012 09:04:15 PM 735 Views
I hate this message board - 07/03/2012 09:06:30 PM 530 Views
Some, though it is far from exhaustive. - 08/03/2012 02:29:06 PM 711 Views

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