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I've fairly limited exposure and that from some years back Isaac Send a noteboard - 04/03/2012 11:35:12 PM
Criticizing American politics is a planetary pastime particularly popular in Europe. I don't think it would really matter if they had legitimate grounds or not. Mostly, for us, it comes down to not wanting a single person with a lot of power in charge and not in a position to grab more, no kings, if POTUS or his foreign equivalent is the only person elected by the entire country in a totally popular vote it's very hard to resist slow power grabs, alternatively one elected by the legislature really can't grab power but my also be fairly useless as a check on them. I like our reasonably balanced method of doing that, not perfect but what is?

It definitely is, but the electoral college really isn't the main point of criticism. People here are far more bothered by the insane and increasingly insane sums required to win elections, particularly now that McCain-Feingold was undermined (okay, I'll grant you, not too many people know what McCain-Feingold is...). The impression people here get, more than anything else, is your presidency almost seems to be for sale - obviously that's a crude over-generalization, but then I'm not talking about my own opinion, but the impressions I get of the general opinion here. The other thing, of course, is the extreme polarization of American politics, thanks to your two party system and 24 hour news cycle - politics have gotten increasingly dirty and "gotcha" everywhere, but in a multiple party system, yesterday's enemy can be tomorrow's ally, so you generally don't want to do too much demonizing that you can't easily retract.


At my time, conversation hinging on America usually was about the wars or Bush/Gore and 9/11 so campaign finance came up a bit but not too much. Of curse, that impression is inaccurate, fed by our own populace and media. There is very little money involved in politics as an industry compared to its share of focus and attention. If the candidates spend a billion for POTUS it represent only a fraction of the roughly 50-60,000 billion dollars of GDP generated in that same four year period. It is considerably less than the annual revenues of the Fox News Channel or CNN. Political contributions barely make up a couple percent of annual charitable contributions, which are in the hundreds of billions, compared to the 4-5 billion spent on mid term and presidential elections in the US, and in terms of breakdown election cycles cost about $10-20 a citizen, with POTUS runing maybe $5 each every five years, the equivalent to half an hour's pay at low brackets. Much of it comes from the politicians themselves, who tend to get bitter if they get out fundraised and spend a lot of time at fundraisers... even though many of those fundraisers aren't for them or even a political cause, and many of their own events are really just adding a fundrasing component onto a speaking engagement. If your governor (or a celeb) is gonna be somewhere talking, you might as well raise some cash off it.

Fundraisers themselves are often misleading, the one I helped organize last night was really just an excuse to show off our local slate of candidates and raise some cash for a pair of modest scholarships we endowed last year. Our overhead was not much lower than our ticket sales and the scholarship money was on the side as part of a pair of raffles. The real purpose was simply to give the candidates a chance to speak to the people who'd be donating large sums or time to them later this year, and to give all the local republicans a chance to renew friendships and meet the new people. Really about the only thing 'for sale' in US politics are ambassadorial positions to 'bundlers' and frankly 'throws good parties, can raise a lot of money, is very loyal to the incumbent and knows politics' is pretty much the ideal resume for the modern ambassador anyway, that's basically the job.

I don't really blame people for holding the general opinion about cash in politics, here or overseas, but it's not really very accurate, anymore than 99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name or all accountants cooking their books. That's why those of us on the right always complain about the Unions in politics and the media bias, unions make a ready-made volunteer force that anyone in their leadership can essentially preach to as a captive audience and a single positive spin 2 minute news piece on a candidate is worth way more than 2 minutes of commercials, a single blockbuster movie that portrays the right in a bad light can do more damage than a hundred million dollars worth of advertising. And on polarization, well a two party system does tend to end up that way but a lot of it is the 24-hour news cycle and even predating that the media in general... conflict makes good headlines. As a kid watching C-span I could see two congressmen sit down with the moderator and spend an hour discussing the ins and outs of a new bill with pleasant and friendly attitudes to each other and then see them that night on CNN and Fox doing a two minute heated argument instead. I'm not really sure how polarized we are though, the Brits are the only parliament I've really seen in action due to language barrier but they certainly aren't a nice and polite bunch to each other, I've no idea if that applies to any other legislatures in Europe but the US congress is apparently legendary for sedate performances on the floor. We're not really all that polarized, we don't have many riots and considering how heavily armed the populace is things stay prety peaceful.

Electoral college isn't exactly something anyone but election geeks care about in Europe, except perhaps in the rare cases of candidates losing the election while winning the popular vote, like Gore in 2000.


I really have no idea what the norm is for Europe as a whole, if there even is one, most of my experience is from living in a medium-sized city that had a large college and a US base there, or occasional chats while roaming around on long weekends and staying at hostels. When I did end up having conversations with older Germans for instance, they didn't seem to care about US politics at all, and were quite happy to make small talk about interesting local sights to see and history... probably why I started altering my travel to be 'jump off train at random small stops, flip coin on next destination' instead of hitting the major tourist traps.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Now That Romney Is Officially the Republican Presidential Nominee: Pick the President! - 29/02/2012 08:29:02 PM 1239 Views
I have never understood the point of the Electoral College. - 29/02/2012 11:39:11 PM 687 Views
You don't think like a politician then - 01/03/2012 12:38:36 AM 730 Views
I also have not seen most of that mentioned in the popular vs. electoral debate. - 01/03/2012 02:34:31 PM 614 Views
what about one vote one value? - 02/03/2012 11:51:32 PM 698 Views
That has not really changed. - 03/03/2012 03:30:34 AM 881 Views
a bit simplistic and unrealistic - 02/03/2012 11:44:02 PM 657 Views
When illustrating a point realism is not required and simplicity is a plus - 03/03/2012 03:04:26 AM 671 Views
I have a couple quibbles. - 03/03/2012 05:23:46 AM 699 Views
Oh, certainly, I'm over-generalizing but I was already getting long-winded - 03/03/2012 06:52:04 AM 661 Views
I hate when people do that. - 05/03/2012 09:49:36 AM 641 Views
What a bunch of waffle! - 03/03/2012 10:47:19 AM 799 Views
First you complain of simplicity then of my lack of brevity? - 03/03/2012 11:18:11 AM 593 Views
A simplistic argument doesn't mean it's brief *NM* - 03/03/2012 09:55:51 PM 327 Views
Also I don't like this refrain that implies only the POTUS vote matters - 03/03/2012 03:29:58 AM 816 Views
IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college. - 03/03/2012 05:57:41 AM 619 Views
Re: IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college. - 03/03/2012 07:02:30 AM 656 Views
*is learning* - 04/03/2012 09:49:42 PM 647 Views
Re: *is learning* - 04/03/2012 09:56:16 PM 660 Views
To the extent I can (yet again) claim to speak for Europeans... - 04/03/2012 10:33:01 PM 636 Views
I've fairly limited exposure and that from some years back - 04/03/2012 11:35:12 PM 697 Views
Re: *is learning* - 05/03/2012 12:08:08 AM 699 Views
You could imitate the French. - 07/03/2012 10:40:16 PM 628 Views
That seems... unlikely.... - 08/03/2012 03:03:54 PM 635 Views
I don't know much about Norwegian politics, but you seem to be wrong. - 03/03/2012 06:18:08 PM 667 Views
Do you happen to have that link, please? - 03/03/2012 06:46:31 PM 550 Views
Sure. - 03/03/2012 06:58:07 PM 721 Views
Guess we did not read far enough. - 03/03/2012 10:38:07 PM 668 Views
Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 03/03/2012 11:49:44 PM 869 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 05/03/2012 06:56:24 AM 671 Views
Fascinating. - 05/03/2012 10:52:32 PM 650 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 08/03/2012 07:11:12 PM 621 Views
Many valid reasons, including those Isaac cited. - 02/03/2012 02:26:37 AM 768 Views
Most states are ignored anyway - 02/03/2012 11:56:12 PM 845 Views
Why would we do something logical? Dude, you're utterly ridiculous. *NM* - 05/03/2012 04:53:38 PM 364 Views
I'm kind of sad- does this mean Santorum won't be providing wonderful sound bites anymore? - 01/03/2012 02:22:31 PM 612 Views
Nothing has shut him up yet, why should this? *NM* - 01/03/2012 05:27:30 PM 347 Views
Maybe he'll pull a Palin and go touring around the country *NM* - 01/03/2012 07:06:02 PM 317 Views
No, it probably means we will get more and worse than ever. - 01/03/2012 11:25:25 PM 786 Views
Romney or Obama, either way, America loses. *NM* - 02/03/2012 01:10:26 AM 438 Views
Hard to dispute that either; six of one, half a dozen of the other. - 02/03/2012 01:38:07 AM 589 Views
Couldn't agree more *NM* - 02/03/2012 06:52:51 PM 356 Views
It reminds me of when Denver backed into the NFL playoffs. - 02/03/2012 09:36:13 PM 576 Views
I'd agree hope and change was extremely unrealistic - 02/03/2012 11:58:57 PM 585 Views
Romney is damaged - 02/03/2012 11:27:33 PM 601 Views
Obama is rather damaged also; it will probably come down to FL and OH, yet again. - 03/03/2012 02:23:53 AM 704 Views
I'm hoping for Rubio as VP... then FL probably won't matter - 03/03/2012 04:28:08 AM 592 Views
You should put that on your license plates. - 03/03/2012 06:41:34 AM 715 Views
Re: You should put that on your license plates. - 03/03/2012 06:51:00 AM 657 Views
Ax murderers are people, too! - 04/03/2012 08:23:41 PM 613 Views
And what are you basing all of this on? - 03/03/2012 09:54:06 PM 703 Views
The closeness of several states when Obama was far more popular, and UTs heavily Mormon neighbors. - 03/03/2012 11:44:06 PM 650 Views
Wrong - 04/03/2012 08:08:56 AM 776 Views
Higher turnout magnifies the Mormon effect. - 04/03/2012 08:08:09 PM 813 Views
Your reasoning is flawed and if you can't see it there is no hope for you - 05/03/2012 11:39:04 PM 720 Views
Yeah, I think we had that conversation already, several times, in fact. - 07/03/2012 05:36:45 AM 555 Views
Do you have any knowledge of statistics at all? - 07/03/2012 09:04:15 PM 715 Views
I hate this message board - 07/03/2012 09:06:30 PM 510 Views
Some, though it is far from exhaustive. - 08/03/2012 02:29:06 PM 694 Views

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