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I also have not seen most of that mentioned in the popular vs. electoral debate. Joel Send a noteboard - 01/03/2012 02:34:31 PM
Beyond the usual reasons there are others. In a straight up/down voluntary voting system a politician has extra reason to invest 'get out the vote' efforts in places where they have maximum effect... cities and college campuses, liberal territory basically. You could do straight up/down in a mandatory system but then you're deliberately including votes by people who are too lazy to go through the minimal effort to vote and thus probably are too lazy to be informed on issues and aren't really ideal voters.

In the US, older people have more effective say as a group since many more of them vote, and we like that as older people generally are better informed, your average 55 year old knowing more then an 18 year old. In a mandatory voting system there will be more 18 year olds then 55 year olds voting, as population grows, and that's not really a bias one might consider ideal. Absent that, in a voluntary system, it is simply far easier to grab those who would be unlikely to vote and get them to vote in a city or near a college then in the country, so you'd be creating a doubly non-ideal shift to the vote.

Currently, say, if the Governor of New York created a tax break or cash reward on the spot for voting, and pulled off say 80-90% vote totals, while the end sum might be a decent amount different then prior breakdowns, it wouldn't infect the national vote, NY has NY's votes based on their population nothing more. A 40% turnout in Indiana and a 70% turnout in Arizona, both population 6.5 million, will get the same result, even though one had 2.6 and the other 4.6 million voters. So the current system eliminates the advantage to any heavily republican or democrat state... the sort who would have a one-party state gov't... from having any reason to get their hands into the pot, those states have no motive to tamper with the EV as it is already a foregone conclusion, and those states are also the ones that could most easily pull off some sort of legitimate or fraudulent mass vote effort.

The billion or two spent on POTUS races is less than a percent of a percent of the economy, but effects far more, and a populace state with a candidate up for POTUS could easily find some way, in a pop vote system, to seriously spike the odds, even if simply by that state voting more on account of that person coming from there, so we might end up never seeing a candidate who didn't come from the top 5 most populous states. This is not to say our current system is wonderfully fair, but devil you know, and I don't think most pop vote fans or fence sitters have ever considered much of what I listed there.

Not directly, at least; the first and third paragraphs are ultimately consequences a popular systems tendency to marginalize low population areas. A popular vote system would not only allow a candidate to focus his efforts on fifty or so of the largest cities, but force his opponents to do the same, since they could not afford to sacrifice time and money needed to contest the 20 million NYC voters if the only payoff were half a million MT voters. Yet another reason not to fix what is not broken, but I am still going to give Tim the standard response even though he has surely already heard it.
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Now That Romney Is Officially the Republican Presidential Nominee: Pick the President! - 29/02/2012 08:29:02 PM 1239 Views
I have never understood the point of the Electoral College. - 29/02/2012 11:39:11 PM 687 Views
You don't think like a politician then - 01/03/2012 12:38:36 AM 730 Views
I also have not seen most of that mentioned in the popular vs. electoral debate. - 01/03/2012 02:34:31 PM 615 Views
what about one vote one value? - 02/03/2012 11:51:32 PM 698 Views
That has not really changed. - 03/03/2012 03:30:34 AM 881 Views
a bit simplistic and unrealistic - 02/03/2012 11:44:02 PM 657 Views
When illustrating a point realism is not required and simplicity is a plus - 03/03/2012 03:04:26 AM 671 Views
I have a couple quibbles. - 03/03/2012 05:23:46 AM 699 Views
Oh, certainly, I'm over-generalizing but I was already getting long-winded - 03/03/2012 06:52:04 AM 661 Views
I hate when people do that. - 05/03/2012 09:49:36 AM 641 Views
What a bunch of waffle! - 03/03/2012 10:47:19 AM 799 Views
First you complain of simplicity then of my lack of brevity? - 03/03/2012 11:18:11 AM 593 Views
A simplistic argument doesn't mean it's brief *NM* - 03/03/2012 09:55:51 PM 327 Views
Also I don't like this refrain that implies only the POTUS vote matters - 03/03/2012 03:29:58 AM 816 Views
IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college. - 03/03/2012 05:57:41 AM 619 Views
Re: IMHO, parliaments choosing prime ministers is LESS democratic than the electoral college. - 03/03/2012 07:02:30 AM 656 Views
*is learning* - 04/03/2012 09:49:42 PM 647 Views
Re: *is learning* - 04/03/2012 09:56:16 PM 660 Views
To the extent I can (yet again) claim to speak for Europeans... - 04/03/2012 10:33:01 PM 636 Views
I've fairly limited exposure and that from some years back - 04/03/2012 11:35:12 PM 697 Views
Re: *is learning* - 05/03/2012 12:08:08 AM 699 Views
You could imitate the French. - 07/03/2012 10:40:16 PM 628 Views
That seems... unlikely.... - 08/03/2012 03:03:54 PM 635 Views
I don't know much about Norwegian politics, but you seem to be wrong. - 03/03/2012 06:18:08 PM 667 Views
Do you happen to have that link, please? - 03/03/2012 06:46:31 PM 550 Views
Sure. - 03/03/2012 06:58:07 PM 721 Views
Guess we did not read far enough. - 03/03/2012 10:38:07 PM 668 Views
Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 03/03/2012 11:49:44 PM 869 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 05/03/2012 06:56:24 AM 671 Views
Fascinating. - 05/03/2012 10:52:32 PM 650 Views
Re: Yeah, you have to know a few things about European politics... - 08/03/2012 07:11:12 PM 621 Views
Many valid reasons, including those Isaac cited. - 02/03/2012 02:26:37 AM 768 Views
Most states are ignored anyway - 02/03/2012 11:56:12 PM 845 Views
Why would we do something logical? Dude, you're utterly ridiculous. *NM* - 05/03/2012 04:53:38 PM 364 Views
I'm kind of sad- does this mean Santorum won't be providing wonderful sound bites anymore? - 01/03/2012 02:22:31 PM 612 Views
Nothing has shut him up yet, why should this? *NM* - 01/03/2012 05:27:30 PM 347 Views
Maybe he'll pull a Palin and go touring around the country *NM* - 01/03/2012 07:06:02 PM 317 Views
No, it probably means we will get more and worse than ever. - 01/03/2012 11:25:25 PM 786 Views
Romney or Obama, either way, America loses. *NM* - 02/03/2012 01:10:26 AM 438 Views
Hard to dispute that either; six of one, half a dozen of the other. - 02/03/2012 01:38:07 AM 589 Views
Couldn't agree more *NM* - 02/03/2012 06:52:51 PM 356 Views
It reminds me of when Denver backed into the NFL playoffs. - 02/03/2012 09:36:13 PM 576 Views
I'd agree hope and change was extremely unrealistic - 02/03/2012 11:58:57 PM 585 Views
Romney is damaged - 02/03/2012 11:27:33 PM 601 Views
Obama is rather damaged also; it will probably come down to FL and OH, yet again. - 03/03/2012 02:23:53 AM 705 Views
I'm hoping for Rubio as VP... then FL probably won't matter - 03/03/2012 04:28:08 AM 592 Views
You should put that on your license plates. - 03/03/2012 06:41:34 AM 715 Views
Re: You should put that on your license plates. - 03/03/2012 06:51:00 AM 657 Views
Ax murderers are people, too! - 04/03/2012 08:23:41 PM 613 Views
And what are you basing all of this on? - 03/03/2012 09:54:06 PM 703 Views
The closeness of several states when Obama was far more popular, and UTs heavily Mormon neighbors. - 03/03/2012 11:44:06 PM 650 Views
Wrong - 04/03/2012 08:08:56 AM 776 Views
Higher turnout magnifies the Mormon effect. - 04/03/2012 08:08:09 PM 813 Views
Your reasoning is flawed and if you can't see it there is no hope for you - 05/03/2012 11:39:04 PM 720 Views
Yeah, I think we had that conversation already, several times, in fact. - 07/03/2012 05:36:45 AM 555 Views
Do you have any knowledge of statistics at all? - 07/03/2012 09:04:15 PM 715 Views
I hate this message board - 07/03/2012 09:06:30 PM 510 Views
Some, though it is far from exhaustive. - 08/03/2012 02:29:06 PM 694 Views

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