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You ignoring it is not the same thing as it having no tangible effect. nossy Send a noteboard - 05/02/2012 02:11:36 AM
You haven't offered any real evidence in rebuttal. In response to actual observations about the behavior of the "pro-life" movement, all you have is speculation about how things might be different, with nothing to back it up. One does not have to make any special effort to see how the "pro-life" movement behaves; just read the news and see how they act. Apparently, though, a special effort is required to understand what that behavior implies about the character of the movement.

I didn't want to get into the conversation, which is why I didn't go more deeply than explanations. I looked up pro-life groups, and the link below shows one of the first that came up. I'm still looking through a few others that I will link as well if you require it. Some are very, very religious (which I included so you don't accuse me of cherry-picking), but there are many (more than you're obv willing to admit) that are focused on the concept of abortion itself. You disagree with them on the moment a life starts - I get that. The problem is that you said most pro lifers were mainly focused on appropriate sex-having, and that is not accurate.

The question is not what some hypothetical "pro-life" person whom you've constructed in your head does or doesn't do. There is an organized movement for this cause, and it does not act in the ways it should act if its stated goals were its actual goals.

I see. I'm the makerupper. Good to know. Incidentally, if you go back to my first reply to you, you'll see that I agreed with your view on the link between pro lifers and contraceptive research. One of us can apparently read what the other is writing and respond to it.

There is no coherent definition of personhood which includes zygotes, or even most pre-third trimester fetuses. Persons are intelligent, self-aware beings; this requires higher brain function.

I didn't say it was a person. I said that it is part of the process by which a human is created. And people are allowed to have the opinion that if that process is cancelled, that life has been ended. In fact, that is what I believe, even though I have decided that there are instances in which I'm willing to accept that people feel it's necessary to do so.


I provided links to others for which I could find definitive mission statements. It's not an exhaustive list, by any means, and if you need more, just let me know. However, if you do bother to look through any of them, you'll notice that more of them reference a basic right to life than anything about puritanical sex-banning. Obviously, that POV exists, and may even be linked to some of these organizations. I simply find that it isn't the majority any longer. *shrugs*

The Pro Life Movement:
http://www.prolifeinfo.org/the-pro-life-movement.html

Pro Life Action League:
http://www.prolifeaction.org/about/

Center for Life Principles: http://www.lifeprinciples.net/MissionStatement.html

Feminists for Life: http://www.feministsforlife.org/who/aboutus.htm

Here's one you're like - it fits your view:
http://www.fightpp.org/show.cfm?page=LDI

March for Life:
http://www.marchforlife.org/content/view/16/28/

Personhood USA:
http://www.personhoodusa.com/what-is-personhood

Precious Life:
http://www.preciouslife.com/?va=191

AUL
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Susan G. Komen cuts funds to Planned Parenthood. (with updated edit) nossy - 02/02/2012 04:32:27 PM 2633 Views
The most annoying part is in the sixth paragraph- abortions are only a small part of their thing beetnemesis - 02/02/2012 05:08:07 PM 1490 Views
I agree. nossy - 02/02/2012 05:20:17 PM 1359 Views
I can understand it though. Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2012 05:45:55 PM 1454 Views
I can too, it just isn't for me. nossy - 02/02/2012 05:58:33 PM 1382 Views
Actually, there are longer-acting forms of birth control than the pill. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/02/2012 12:37:42 AM 1366 Views
I do think that preventing abortions is their primary goal. Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2012 01:08:05 AM 1356 Views
If they don't see that link, it's because they haven't looked. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/02/2012 02:42:42 AM 1441 Views
That is a little unfair. Joel - 03/02/2012 12:48:46 PM 1708 Views
Won't someone please think of the children?! Dreaded Anomaly - 04/02/2012 05:03:27 AM 1429 Views
I think you're leaving out some important points. nossy - 04/02/2012 03:40:48 PM 1326 Views
Ah, the good ol' silent majority. Dreaded Anomaly - 04/02/2012 07:32:29 PM 1335 Views
So which moron is feeding you this crap? Ray - 04/02/2012 10:27:15 PM 1380 Views
A zygote isn't a person, because it doesn't have a brain. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 12:33:29 AM 1366 Views
It worries me when we think alike.... Joel - 05/02/2012 01:22:35 PM 1447 Views
Brain waves at 8 weeks are a myth. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 08:46:06 PM 1503 Views
"brain function... appears to be reliably present in the fetus at about eight weeks' gestation." Joel - 05/02/2012 10:42:35 PM 1442 Views
Oh please. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 11:13:50 PM 1382 Views
Re: Oh please yourself. Joel - 06/02/2012 09:15:26 PM 1265 Views
Quite a telling reply. Dreaded Anomaly - 07/02/2012 04:38:20 AM 1362 Views
Re: I quite agree. Joel - 08/02/2012 06:03:23 PM 1556 Views
You're taking an issue of objective facts and treating it like a day of playground gossip. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/02/2012 03:47:06 AM 1377 Views
No, your source, in which there is very little that is objective, did that for me. Joel - 11/02/2012 02:59:45 AM 1400 Views
I see you have continued to provide no factual arguments. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/02/2012 04:53:28 AM 1699 Views
I presented factual rebuttals. Joel - 19/02/2012 01:56:45 AM 1446 Views
You continue to miss the point. Dreaded Anomaly - 23/02/2012 10:22:24 PM 1536 Views
No, I got the point: You expect me to accept a heavily biased, partisan and combative "source." Joel - 07/03/2012 01:47:37 AM 1461 Views
The claim of brain waves at 8 weeks is still unsupported by evidence, i.e. a myth. Dreaded Anomaly - 15/03/2012 09:16:14 PM 1526 Views
Well, yes. nossy - 04/02/2012 11:14:47 PM 1467 Views
A silent majority may as well not exist, if it has no tangible effects. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 12:54:34 AM 1342 Views
You ignoring it is not the same thing as it having no tangible effect. nossy - 05/02/2012 02:11:36 AM 1456 Views
Ignoring what? You haven't shown me anything solid. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 05:25:23 AM 1339 Views
It's ok, we're done. *NM* nossy - 05/02/2012 09:29:05 AM 795 Views
Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. Joel - 04/02/2012 08:25:49 PM 1505 Views
Re: Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 02:11:28 AM 1371 Views
If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. Joel - 05/02/2012 08:42:17 AM 1196 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 10:04:59 PM 1394 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. Joel - 06/02/2012 08:57:38 PM 1327 Views
I'm done discussing my use of the term "oppression." The Tim Ryan stuff is interesting, though. Dreaded Anomaly - 07/02/2012 05:37:05 AM 1475 Views
Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Joel - 08/02/2012 06:01:32 PM 1582 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/02/2012 05:30:58 AM 1435 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Joel - 11/02/2012 02:58:00 AM 1434 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/02/2012 04:29:08 AM 1525 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Joel - 19/02/2012 01:54:30 AM 1415 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Dreaded Anomaly - 23/02/2012 10:59:32 PM 1742 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Joel - 07/03/2012 01:47:44 AM 1406 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Dreaded Anomaly - 15/03/2012 10:27:23 PM 1635 Views
There are problems with the implants LadyLorraine - 03/02/2012 01:42:55 AM 1410 Views
Any form of birth control doesn't work for everyone, though. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/02/2012 02:37:00 AM 1427 Views
Oh yes, I totally agree! My point is just that there are some barriers to handing out implants *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/02/2012 03:38:05 AM 675 Views
You have a talent for understatement. Joel - 03/02/2012 01:08:40 PM 1425 Views
What on earth does that have to do with anything? Cannoli - 03/02/2012 01:47:42 AM 1316 Views
I was actually kinda with you until you closed with that anathema I condemned in my response to rt. Joel - 03/02/2012 01:39:06 PM 1370 Views
I agree that they have made Beast Cancer a cult but splitting with PP is just smart Ray - 02/02/2012 05:39:49 PM 1557 Views
I agree. Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2012 06:00:17 PM 1334 Views
yes she is going to have to piss off one group or the other Ray - 02/02/2012 06:12:31 PM 1379 Views
Right nossy - 02/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1437 Views
it is a judgment call and I hope her decision is based on more than my guesses Ray - 02/02/2012 06:53:50 PM 1308 Views
Do you see a way Komen could have avoided pissing off one side? Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2012 06:55:36 PM 1344 Views
No, I don't. I don't believe I said that? nossy - 02/02/2012 07:53:50 PM 1272 Views
You didn't; I inferred it from the way you phrased that ("if she HAS to..."). Sorry. Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2012 08:06:11 PM 1453 Views
I know I'm not always clear. nossy - 02/02/2012 08:32:47 PM 1357 Views
Just curious... Narg - 02/02/2012 10:07:49 PM 1352 Views
Not at all. nossy - 02/02/2012 10:24:19 PM 1390 Views
Not at all? Narg - 02/02/2012 10:32:31 PM 1300 Views
No. nossy - 02/02/2012 10:47:04 PM 1241 Views
My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes Ray - 02/02/2012 11:17:24 PM 1319 Views
Re: My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes nossy - 03/02/2012 12:08:01 AM 1333 Views
wow that may be the worst advice I had in weeks Ray - 03/02/2012 12:13:18 AM 1324 Views
Ooor, the best. nossy - 03/02/2012 12:25:56 AM 1305 Views
ok now you are just being mean *NM* Ray - 03/02/2012 12:46:12 AM 791 Views
The thread was going too well - I thought we needed the meanness. *NM* nossy - 03/02/2012 11:30:39 AM 729 Views
rabble rouser *NM* Ray - 04/02/2012 04:24:01 AM 802 Views
I misread this at first Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2012 12:51:44 AM 1344 Views
not to mention codeine seems to make me double post Ray - 02/02/2012 11:17:26 PM 2394 Views
I'm not so sure I agree. Or not completely. nossy - 02/02/2012 06:14:11 PM 1301 Views
I don't diagree with the way you see it Ray - 02/02/2012 06:39:41 PM 1371 Views
More inevitable than anything, considering who started Komen. Joel - 02/02/2012 10:19:34 PM 1361 Views
Never having heard of any of those except PP, my opinion may not be the most relevant... Legolas - 02/02/2012 08:32:48 PM 1415 Views
You don't know stuff. nossy - 02/02/2012 08:43:38 PM 1397 Views
I know the stuff that matters. Legolas - 02/02/2012 09:55:08 PM 1277 Views
That's true. nossy - 02/02/2012 10:34:32 PM 1400 Views
they may also be a afraid that PP will go the way of ACORN Ray - 02/02/2012 11:04:16 PM 1445 Views
"Accused" of = unfounded slander. Aeryn - 03/02/2012 12:13:30 AM 1469 Views
did you notice I called tactic disgusting? That doesn't mean it isn't effective Ray - 03/02/2012 12:45:10 AM 1402 Views
The investigation by Congress is well-known to be specious. It's the House GOP abusing their power. *NM* Dreaded Anomaly - 03/02/2012 12:41:58 AM 820 Views
This is so foreign a debate for me Lews_TherinThelamon - 02/02/2012 10:16:15 PM 1408 Views
Must be nice. *NM* nossy - 03/02/2012 12:26:49 AM 809 Views
Re: stuff rebelaessedai - 03/02/2012 09:18:53 AM 1276 Views
I'm sorry, but what're we talking about when we're talking about "cancer" LadyLorraine - 03/02/2012 12:49:34 PM 1351 Views
Obviously not adenocarcinoma, no. rebelaessedai - 04/02/2012 07:36:06 AM 1442 Views
I"m not that fussed. I'm just generally leary of research that has results like that LadyLorraine - 04/02/2012 08:35:04 PM 1282 Views
Fair enough. rebelaessedai - 04/02/2012 10:17:31 PM 1441 Views
Once I looked up Nancy Brinker at Wikipedia it all made sense. Joel - 02/02/2012 10:54:34 PM 1439 Views
Re: Once I looked up Nancy Brinker at Wikipedia it all made sense. nossy - 02/02/2012 11:03:32 PM 1312 Views
After a little more digging I have to say you are probably right. Joel - 03/02/2012 02:23:14 AM 1225 Views
They restored funding incidentally Isaac - 03/02/2012 05:43:47 PM 1344 Views
Unless I've missed it nossy - 03/02/2012 05:56:15 PM 1376 Views
You must have missed it then Isaac - 03/02/2012 07:07:13 PM 1337 Views
If you're referring to Cannoli nossy - 03/02/2012 07:19:25 PM 1476 Views
Multiple was not an accidental choice of words Isaac - 03/02/2012 11:46:30 PM 1333 Views
Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. nossy - 04/02/2012 12:41:42 AM 1372 Views
Re: Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. Isaac - 04/02/2012 01:53:25 AM 1565 Views
Well, I'll try again for both of us. nossy - 04/02/2012 02:56:42 PM 1424 Views
Re: Well, I'll try again for both of us. Isaac - 04/02/2012 07:40:25 PM 1360 Views
well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision random thoughts - 03/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1465 Views
Re: well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision Isaac - 03/02/2012 06:29:34 PM 1287 Views
I think that ship sailed long ago. Joel - 03/02/2012 08:45:13 PM 1317 Views
Truth Dannymac - 04/02/2012 02:07:20 AM 1359 Views
I do wonder a bit which lawmakers Fox thinks "pressured" Komen. Joel - 03/02/2012 08:29:50 PM 1294 Views
Beyond the 26 senators, I'd imagine rumor of the more reliable sort Isaac - 03/02/2012 08:46:31 PM 1373 Views
Well, if they wrote AS senators rather than friends of Nancy Brinker, that probably qualifies. Joel - 03/02/2012 10:24:11 PM 1407 Views
Judge for yourself Isaac - 04/02/2012 12:01:06 AM 1430 Views
Well, a public letter makes whether they signed it "Sen. so-and-so" irrelevant: It is political. Joel - 04/02/2012 04:07:20 PM 1360 Views
are you trying to disprove the study you posted? random thoughts - 03/02/2012 09:20:12 PM 1467 Views
To me, it depends on the nature of the contact, which I have not dug enough to discover. Joel - 03/02/2012 10:43:45 PM 1297 Views
you admit you have no incite into what happened Ray - 04/02/2012 04:27:17 AM 1378 Views
Actually, it looks like Komens new VP (and former GOP GA gubernatorial candidate) had the incite. Joel - 04/02/2012 04:24:14 PM 1426 Views
educated guess don't work when you are tinfoil hat wearing kool-aid drinker Ray - 04/02/2012 09:33:49 PM 1327 Views
Dude. nossy - 04/02/2012 11:20:49 PM 1211 Views
Yo mama? Joel - 05/02/2012 05:32:11 AM 1394 Views
whhhhhhyyyyyy nossy - 04/02/2012 11:23:58 PM 1383 Views
Why would I not think that? Joel - 05/02/2012 05:46:15 AM 1237 Views
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