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You ignoring it is not the same thing as it having no tangible effect. nossy Send a noteboard - 05/02/2012 02:11:36 AM
You haven't offered any real evidence in rebuttal. In response to actual observations about the behavior of the "pro-life" movement, all you have is speculation about how things might be different, with nothing to back it up. One does not have to make any special effort to see how the "pro-life" movement behaves; just read the news and see how they act. Apparently, though, a special effort is required to understand what that behavior implies about the character of the movement.

I didn't want to get into the conversation, which is why I didn't go more deeply than explanations. I looked up pro-life groups, and the link below shows one of the first that came up. I'm still looking through a few others that I will link as well if you require it. Some are very, very religious (which I included so you don't accuse me of cherry-picking), but there are many (more than you're obv willing to admit) that are focused on the concept of abortion itself. You disagree with them on the moment a life starts - I get that. The problem is that you said most pro lifers were mainly focused on appropriate sex-having, and that is not accurate.

The question is not what some hypothetical "pro-life" person whom you've constructed in your head does or doesn't do. There is an organized movement for this cause, and it does not act in the ways it should act if its stated goals were its actual goals.

I see. I'm the makerupper. Good to know. Incidentally, if you go back to my first reply to you, you'll see that I agreed with your view on the link between pro lifers and contraceptive research. One of us can apparently read what the other is writing and respond to it.

There is no coherent definition of personhood which includes zygotes, or even most pre-third trimester fetuses. Persons are intelligent, self-aware beings; this requires higher brain function.

I didn't say it was a person. I said that it is part of the process by which a human is created. And people are allowed to have the opinion that if that process is cancelled, that life has been ended. In fact, that is what I believe, even though I have decided that there are instances in which I'm willing to accept that people feel it's necessary to do so.


I provided links to others for which I could find definitive mission statements. It's not an exhaustive list, by any means, and if you need more, just let me know. However, if you do bother to look through any of them, you'll notice that more of them reference a basic right to life than anything about puritanical sex-banning. Obviously, that POV exists, and may even be linked to some of these organizations. I simply find that it isn't the majority any longer. *shrugs*

The Pro Life Movement:
http://www.prolifeinfo.org/the-pro-life-movement.html

Pro Life Action League:
http://www.prolifeaction.org/about/

Center for Life Principles: http://www.lifeprinciples.net/MissionStatement.html

Feminists for Life: http://www.feministsforlife.org/who/aboutus.htm

Here's one you're like - it fits your view:
http://www.fightpp.org/show.cfm?page=LDI

March for Life:
http://www.marchforlife.org/content/view/16/28/

Personhood USA:
http://www.personhoodusa.com/what-is-personhood

Precious Life:
http://www.preciouslife.com/?va=191

AUL
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Susan G. Komen cuts funds to Planned Parenthood. (with updated edit) nossy - 02/02/2012 04:32:27 PM 2403 Views
The most annoying part is in the sixth paragraph- abortions are only a small part of their thing beetnemesis - 02/02/2012 05:08:07 PM 1283 Views
I agree. nossy - 02/02/2012 05:20:17 PM 1165 Views
I can understand it though. Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2012 05:45:55 PM 1244 Views
I can too, it just isn't for me. nossy - 02/02/2012 05:58:33 PM 1168 Views
Actually, there are longer-acting forms of birth control than the pill. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/02/2012 12:37:42 AM 1164 Views
I do think that preventing abortions is their primary goal. Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2012 01:08:05 AM 1122 Views
If they don't see that link, it's because they haven't looked. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/02/2012 02:42:42 AM 1225 Views
That is a little unfair. Joel - 03/02/2012 12:48:46 PM 1458 Views
Won't someone please think of the children?! Dreaded Anomaly - 04/02/2012 05:03:27 AM 1212 Views
I think you're leaving out some important points. nossy - 04/02/2012 03:40:48 PM 1136 Views
Ah, the good ol' silent majority. Dreaded Anomaly - 04/02/2012 07:32:29 PM 1128 Views
So which moron is feeding you this crap? Ray - 04/02/2012 10:27:15 PM 1180 Views
A zygote isn't a person, because it doesn't have a brain. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 12:33:29 AM 1146 Views
It worries me when we think alike.... Joel - 05/02/2012 01:22:35 PM 1223 Views
Brain waves at 8 weeks are a myth. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 08:46:06 PM 1300 Views
"brain function... appears to be reliably present in the fetus at about eight weeks' gestation." Joel - 05/02/2012 10:42:35 PM 1215 Views
Oh please. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 11:13:50 PM 1165 Views
Re: Oh please yourself. Joel - 06/02/2012 09:15:26 PM 1040 Views
Quite a telling reply. Dreaded Anomaly - 07/02/2012 04:38:20 AM 1136 Views
Re: I quite agree. Joel - 08/02/2012 06:03:23 PM 1336 Views
You're taking an issue of objective facts and treating it like a day of playground gossip. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/02/2012 03:47:06 AM 1144 Views
No, your source, in which there is very little that is objective, did that for me. Joel - 11/02/2012 02:59:45 AM 1214 Views
I see you have continued to provide no factual arguments. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/02/2012 04:53:28 AM 1471 Views
I presented factual rebuttals. Joel - 19/02/2012 01:56:45 AM 1235 Views
You continue to miss the point. Dreaded Anomaly - 23/02/2012 10:22:24 PM 1326 Views
No, I got the point: You expect me to accept a heavily biased, partisan and combative "source." Joel - 07/03/2012 01:47:37 AM 1248 Views
The claim of brain waves at 8 weeks is still unsupported by evidence, i.e. a myth. Dreaded Anomaly - 15/03/2012 09:16:14 PM 1309 Views
Well, yes. nossy - 04/02/2012 11:14:47 PM 1233 Views
A silent majority may as well not exist, if it has no tangible effects. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 12:54:34 AM 1154 Views
You ignoring it is not the same thing as it having no tangible effect. nossy - 05/02/2012 02:11:36 AM 1256 Views
Ignoring what? You haven't shown me anything solid. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 05:25:23 AM 1142 Views
It's ok, we're done. *NM* nossy - 05/02/2012 09:29:05 AM 684 Views
Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. Joel - 04/02/2012 08:25:49 PM 1309 Views
Re: Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 02:11:28 AM 1155 Views
If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. Joel - 05/02/2012 08:42:17 AM 1001 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. Dreaded Anomaly - 05/02/2012 10:04:59 PM 1181 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. Joel - 06/02/2012 08:57:38 PM 1123 Views
I'm done discussing my use of the term "oppression." The Tim Ryan stuff is interesting, though. Dreaded Anomaly - 07/02/2012 05:37:05 AM 1255 Views
Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Joel - 08/02/2012 06:01:32 PM 1354 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/02/2012 05:30:58 AM 1204 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Joel - 11/02/2012 02:58:00 AM 1224 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/02/2012 04:29:08 AM 1320 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Joel - 19/02/2012 01:54:30 AM 1205 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Dreaded Anomaly - 23/02/2012 10:59:32 PM 1525 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Joel - 07/03/2012 01:47:44 AM 1180 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. Dreaded Anomaly - 15/03/2012 10:27:23 PM 1441 Views
There are problems with the implants LadyLorraine - 03/02/2012 01:42:55 AM 1192 Views
Any form of birth control doesn't work for everyone, though. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/02/2012 02:37:00 AM 1208 Views
Oh yes, I totally agree! My point is just that there are some barriers to handing out implants *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/02/2012 03:38:05 AM 555 Views
You have a talent for understatement. Joel - 03/02/2012 01:08:40 PM 1193 Views
What on earth does that have to do with anything? Cannoli - 03/02/2012 01:47:42 AM 1117 Views
I was actually kinda with you until you closed with that anathema I condemned in my response to rt. Joel - 03/02/2012 01:39:06 PM 1156 Views
I agree that they have made Beast Cancer a cult but splitting with PP is just smart Ray - 02/02/2012 05:39:49 PM 1334 Views
I agree. Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2012 06:00:17 PM 1118 Views
yes she is going to have to piss off one group or the other Ray - 02/02/2012 06:12:31 PM 1165 Views
Right nossy - 02/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1224 Views
it is a judgment call and I hope her decision is based on more than my guesses Ray - 02/02/2012 06:53:50 PM 1091 Views
Do you see a way Komen could have avoided pissing off one side? Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2012 06:55:36 PM 1159 Views
No, I don't. I don't believe I said that? nossy - 02/02/2012 07:53:50 PM 1071 Views
You didn't; I inferred it from the way you phrased that ("if she HAS to..."). Sorry. Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2012 08:06:11 PM 1169 Views
I know I'm not always clear. nossy - 02/02/2012 08:32:47 PM 1155 Views
Just curious... Narg - 02/02/2012 10:07:49 PM 1141 Views
Not at all. nossy - 02/02/2012 10:24:19 PM 1204 Views
Not at all? Narg - 02/02/2012 10:32:31 PM 1103 Views
No. nossy - 02/02/2012 10:47:04 PM 1041 Views
My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes Ray - 02/02/2012 11:17:24 PM 1140 Views
Re: My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes nossy - 03/02/2012 12:08:01 AM 1134 Views
wow that may be the worst advice I had in weeks Ray - 03/02/2012 12:13:18 AM 1116 Views
Ooor, the best. nossy - 03/02/2012 12:25:56 AM 1101 Views
ok now you are just being mean *NM* Ray - 03/02/2012 12:46:12 AM 668 Views
The thread was going too well - I thought we needed the meanness. *NM* nossy - 03/02/2012 11:30:39 AM 621 Views
rabble rouser *NM* Ray - 04/02/2012 04:24:01 AM 686 Views
I misread this at first Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2012 12:51:44 AM 1160 Views
not to mention codeine seems to make me double post Ray - 02/02/2012 11:17:26 PM 2196 Views
I'm not so sure I agree. Or not completely. nossy - 02/02/2012 06:14:11 PM 1080 Views
I don't diagree with the way you see it Ray - 02/02/2012 06:39:41 PM 1151 Views
More inevitable than anything, considering who started Komen. Joel - 02/02/2012 10:19:34 PM 1099 Views
Never having heard of any of those except PP, my opinion may not be the most relevant... Legolas - 02/02/2012 08:32:48 PM 1209 Views
You don't know stuff. nossy - 02/02/2012 08:43:38 PM 1193 Views
I know the stuff that matters. Legolas - 02/02/2012 09:55:08 PM 1080 Views
That's true. nossy - 02/02/2012 10:34:32 PM 1190 Views
they may also be a afraid that PP will go the way of ACORN Ray - 02/02/2012 11:04:16 PM 1230 Views
"Accused" of = unfounded slander. Aeryn - 03/02/2012 12:13:30 AM 1275 Views
did you notice I called tactic disgusting? That doesn't mean it isn't effective Ray - 03/02/2012 12:45:10 AM 1182 Views
The investigation by Congress is well-known to be specious. It's the House GOP abusing their power. *NM* Dreaded Anomaly - 03/02/2012 12:41:58 AM 714 Views
This is so foreign a debate for me Lews_TherinThelamon - 02/02/2012 10:16:15 PM 1211 Views
Must be nice. *NM* nossy - 03/02/2012 12:26:49 AM 717 Views
Re: stuff rebelaessedai - 03/02/2012 09:18:53 AM 1081 Views
I'm sorry, but what're we talking about when we're talking about "cancer" LadyLorraine - 03/02/2012 12:49:34 PM 1141 Views
Obviously not adenocarcinoma, no. rebelaessedai - 04/02/2012 07:36:06 AM 1221 Views
I"m not that fussed. I'm just generally leary of research that has results like that LadyLorraine - 04/02/2012 08:35:04 PM 1080 Views
Fair enough. rebelaessedai - 04/02/2012 10:17:31 PM 1227 Views
Once I looked up Nancy Brinker at Wikipedia it all made sense. Joel - 02/02/2012 10:54:34 PM 1186 Views
Re: Once I looked up Nancy Brinker at Wikipedia it all made sense. nossy - 02/02/2012 11:03:32 PM 1088 Views
After a little more digging I have to say you are probably right. Joel - 03/02/2012 02:23:14 AM 1027 Views
They restored funding incidentally Isaac - 03/02/2012 05:43:47 PM 1096 Views
Unless I've missed it nossy - 03/02/2012 05:56:15 PM 1161 Views
You must have missed it then Isaac - 03/02/2012 07:07:13 PM 1098 Views
If you're referring to Cannoli nossy - 03/02/2012 07:19:25 PM 1259 Views
Multiple was not an accidental choice of words Isaac - 03/02/2012 11:46:30 PM 1139 Views
Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. nossy - 04/02/2012 12:41:42 AM 1173 Views
Re: Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. Isaac - 04/02/2012 01:53:25 AM 1352 Views
Well, I'll try again for both of us. nossy - 04/02/2012 02:56:42 PM 1204 Views
Re: Well, I'll try again for both of us. Isaac - 04/02/2012 07:40:25 PM 1155 Views
well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision random thoughts - 03/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1276 Views
Re: well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision Isaac - 03/02/2012 06:29:34 PM 1052 Views
I think that ship sailed long ago. Joel - 03/02/2012 08:45:13 PM 1093 Views
Truth Dannymac - 04/02/2012 02:07:20 AM 1183 Views
I do wonder a bit which lawmakers Fox thinks "pressured" Komen. Joel - 03/02/2012 08:29:50 PM 1089 Views
Beyond the 26 senators, I'd imagine rumor of the more reliable sort Isaac - 03/02/2012 08:46:31 PM 1161 Views
Well, if they wrote AS senators rather than friends of Nancy Brinker, that probably qualifies. Joel - 03/02/2012 10:24:11 PM 1205 Views
Judge for yourself Isaac - 04/02/2012 12:01:06 AM 1221 Views
Well, a public letter makes whether they signed it "Sen. so-and-so" irrelevant: It is political. Joel - 04/02/2012 04:07:20 PM 1130 Views
are you trying to disprove the study you posted? random thoughts - 03/02/2012 09:20:12 PM 1238 Views
To me, it depends on the nature of the contact, which I have not dug enough to discover. Joel - 03/02/2012 10:43:45 PM 1100 Views
you admit you have no incite into what happened Ray - 04/02/2012 04:27:17 AM 1169 Views
Actually, it looks like Komens new VP (and former GOP GA gubernatorial candidate) had the incite. Joel - 04/02/2012 04:24:14 PM 1186 Views
educated guess don't work when you are tinfoil hat wearing kool-aid drinker Ray - 04/02/2012 09:33:49 PM 1111 Views
Dude. nossy - 04/02/2012 11:20:49 PM 1006 Views
Yo mama? Joel - 05/02/2012 05:32:11 AM 1211 Views
whhhhhhyyyyyy nossy - 04/02/2012 11:23:58 PM 1180 Views
Why would I not think that? Joel - 05/02/2012 05:46:15 AM 1031 Views
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