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Ah, the good ol' silent majority. Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 04/02/2012 07:32:29 PM
The "pro-life" movement ultimately stems from the feeling, generally religiously inspired, that pregnancy must be a necessary consequence of sex. The idea that we could separate the two is what most of the movement actually opposes.

Not most. Some vocal proponents, and in some cases, they are only against the types of birth control that release a fertilized embryo. We, of course, get parents who don't think someone else should be teaching their children the facts of life or providing birth control so they can experience them, but I know plenty of people (and have read quite a bit about it as well) who use and support some types of birth control while not believing women should be allowed the choice of abortion. It's the latter that makes someone specifically pro-life.

Women who have sex out of wedlock should be punished by having to carry the pregnancy to term. Those are the oppressive sexual mores to which I referred. (Interpreting that as "locking up your kids"-style oppression was not a high point of your reply.)

No, women who conceive shouldn't be able to end a life. That is what most pro-life proponents say. At one point, the majority may have believed what you say there, but it isn't that way any longer. Reality is starting to set in. If you could get any of our pro-life people to weigh in, I *think* they would say I'm correct.

So. There are more people against abortion who DO support birth control than there are who reject all of it. The problem really is that they feel that abortion is enough of a crime to negate the need for a place that provides that service. If PP stopped offering abortions and abortion counselling, they would have many more supporters. You cannot ignore that abortion is a strong enough "NO!" for some that it outweighs other positive factors (re: PP).


Observation of the reality of sex ed and birth control advocacy in America simply do not support your claims about the majority of "pro-life" people.

Of course "pro-life" people say that women who conceive shouldn't be able to end a life. Pushing the idea that a zygote is a human life gives them a much more acceptable cover for their (backward, Puritanical) ideas about sexuality. The religious connections and convictions of the movement, and the actions they do and don't take, makes their real goals clear.

If they really felt that a single-celled zygote is morally equivalent to a person and abortion is murder, they would not act they way they do. Murder is a more important issue than birth control or teenage sex. Also, most pregnancies end in miscarriage, without the woman even knowing she was pregnant; a "pro-lifer" ought to see this as an epidemic. I have almost never encountered any who realize this, let alone try to do anything about it. (Every once in a while, some state legislator ends up trying to criminalize miscarriages, and quickly gets eaten alive in the public eye.)

You're simplifying it. In most cases, miscarriages are natural. As unfortunate as it is, people lose babies fairly often, and that is very different to deciding to end that life on purpose. Pro-lifers believe conception makes a baby, and that abortion is murder, but you'll never have a fair argument about it if you continue to believe that most pro-lifers are also against all bc. That is a decreasing statistic, and mainly remains because of the types of bc available - some release the fertilized egg (which, incidentally, is exactly why I agree with you re: birth control research).


Yes, miscarriages are natural. So are any number of diseases, disorders, injuries, etc., but we still try to cure those so that people don't die. If a zygote is a person, why does the "pro-life" movement give zero attention to medical research that might save more of them from miscarriages?

The "pro-life" position of what constitutes a person is absurd on its face; I'm not interested in talking about that, because there is no sound argument for that position. However, if the movement isn't even going to act in basically coherent ways, they deserve no political respect along with deserving no epistemological respect.
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Susan G. Komen cuts funds to Planned Parenthood. (with updated edit) - 02/02/2012 04:32:27 PM 2192 Views
The most annoying part is in the sixth paragraph- abortions are only a small part of their thing - 02/02/2012 05:08:07 PM 1083 Views
I agree. - 02/02/2012 05:20:17 PM 995 Views
I can understand it though. - 02/02/2012 05:45:55 PM 1054 Views
I can too, it just isn't for me. - 02/02/2012 05:58:33 PM 965 Views
Actually, there are longer-acting forms of birth control than the pill. - 03/02/2012 12:37:42 AM 978 Views
I do think that preventing abortions is their primary goal. - 03/02/2012 01:08:05 AM 941 Views
If they don't see that link, it's because they haven't looked. - 03/02/2012 02:42:42 AM 1026 Views
That is a little unfair. - 03/02/2012 12:48:46 PM 1236 Views
Won't someone please think of the children?! - 04/02/2012 05:03:27 AM 1024 Views
I think you're leaving out some important points. - 04/02/2012 03:40:48 PM 965 Views
Ah, the good ol' silent majority. - 04/02/2012 07:32:29 PM 941 Views
So which moron is feeding you this crap? - 04/02/2012 10:27:15 PM 964 Views
A zygote isn't a person, because it doesn't have a brain. - 05/02/2012 12:33:29 AM 960 Views
It worries me when we think alike.... - 05/02/2012 01:22:35 PM 1000 Views
Brain waves at 8 weeks are a myth. - 05/02/2012 08:46:06 PM 1102 Views
"brain function... appears to be reliably present in the fetus at about eight weeks' gestation." - 05/02/2012 10:42:35 PM 1015 Views
Oh please. - 05/02/2012 11:13:50 PM 980 Views
Re: Oh please yourself. - 06/02/2012 09:15:26 PM 856 Views
Quite a telling reply. - 07/02/2012 04:38:20 AM 922 Views
Re: I quite agree. - 08/02/2012 06:03:23 PM 1126 Views
You're taking an issue of objective facts and treating it like a day of playground gossip. - 09/02/2012 03:47:06 AM 966 Views
No, your source, in which there is very little that is objective, did that for me. - 11/02/2012 02:59:45 AM 988 Views
I see you have continued to provide no factual arguments. - 14/02/2012 04:53:28 AM 1224 Views
I presented factual rebuttals. - 19/02/2012 01:56:45 AM 1016 Views
You continue to miss the point. - 23/02/2012 10:22:24 PM 1107 Views
Well, yes. - 04/02/2012 11:14:47 PM 1026 Views
A silent majority may as well not exist, if it has no tangible effects. - 05/02/2012 12:54:34 AM 970 Views
You ignoring it is not the same thing as it having no tangible effect. - 05/02/2012 02:11:36 AM 1064 Views
Ignoring what? You haven't shown me anything solid. - 05/02/2012 05:25:23 AM 964 Views
It's ok, we're done. *NM* - 05/02/2012 09:29:05 AM 588 Views
Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. - 04/02/2012 08:25:49 PM 1054 Views
Re: Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. - 05/02/2012 02:11:28 AM 964 Views
If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 05/02/2012 08:42:17 AM 798 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 05/02/2012 10:04:59 PM 966 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 06/02/2012 08:57:38 PM 948 Views
I'm done discussing my use of the term "oppression." The Tim Ryan stuff is interesting, though. - 07/02/2012 05:37:05 AM 1044 Views
Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 08/02/2012 06:01:32 PM 1134 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 09/02/2012 05:30:58 AM 1002 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 11/02/2012 02:58:00 AM 1032 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 14/02/2012 04:29:08 AM 1096 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 19/02/2012 01:54:30 AM 1010 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 23/02/2012 10:59:32 PM 1310 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 07/03/2012 01:47:44 AM 965 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 15/03/2012 10:27:23 PM 1224 Views
There are problems with the implants - 03/02/2012 01:42:55 AM 990 Views
You have a talent for understatement. - 03/02/2012 01:08:40 PM 975 Views
I agree that they have made Beast Cancer a cult but splitting with PP is just smart - 02/02/2012 05:39:49 PM 1125 Views
I agree. - 02/02/2012 06:00:17 PM 906 Views
yes she is going to have to piss off one group or the other - 02/02/2012 06:12:31 PM 973 Views
Right - 02/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1025 Views
Do you see a way Komen could have avoided pissing off one side? - 02/02/2012 06:55:36 PM 973 Views
No, I don't. I don't believe I said that? - 02/02/2012 07:53:50 PM 880 Views
You didn't; I inferred it from the way you phrased that ("if she HAS to..."). Sorry. - 02/02/2012 08:06:11 PM 963 Views
I know I'm not always clear. - 02/02/2012 08:32:47 PM 965 Views
Just curious... - 02/02/2012 10:07:49 PM 947 Views
Not at all. - 02/02/2012 10:24:19 PM 1011 Views
Not at all? - 02/02/2012 10:32:31 PM 902 Views
No. - 02/02/2012 10:47:04 PM 863 Views
My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes - 02/02/2012 11:17:24 PM 955 Views
Re: My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes - 03/02/2012 12:08:01 AM 954 Views
wow that may be the worst advice I had in weeks - 03/02/2012 12:13:18 AM 917 Views
Ooor, the best. - 03/02/2012 12:25:56 AM 899 Views
ok now you are just being mean *NM* - 03/02/2012 12:46:12 AM 587 Views
The thread was going too well - I thought we needed the meanness. *NM* - 03/02/2012 11:30:39 AM 533 Views
rabble rouser *NM* - 04/02/2012 04:24:01 AM 550 Views
I misread this at first - 03/02/2012 12:51:44 AM 958 Views
not to mention codeine seems to make me double post - 02/02/2012 11:17:26 PM 2000 Views
I'm not so sure I agree. Or not completely. - 02/02/2012 06:14:11 PM 890 Views
I don't diagree with the way you see it - 02/02/2012 06:39:41 PM 962 Views
More inevitable than anything, considering who started Komen. - 02/02/2012 10:19:34 PM 907 Views
Never having heard of any of those except PP, my opinion may not be the most relevant... - 02/02/2012 08:32:48 PM 1032 Views
You don't know stuff. - 02/02/2012 08:43:38 PM 995 Views
I know the stuff that matters. - 02/02/2012 09:55:08 PM 896 Views
That's true. - 02/02/2012 10:34:32 PM 986 Views
they may also be a afraid that PP will go the way of ACORN - 02/02/2012 11:04:16 PM 1038 Views
"Accused" of = unfounded slander. - 03/02/2012 12:13:30 AM 1049 Views
This is so foreign a debate for me - 02/02/2012 10:16:15 PM 1014 Views
Must be nice. *NM* - 03/02/2012 12:26:49 AM 639 Views
Re: stuff - 03/02/2012 09:18:53 AM 913 Views
I'm sorry, but what're we talking about when we're talking about "cancer" - 03/02/2012 12:49:34 PM 945 Views
Obviously not adenocarcinoma, no. - 04/02/2012 07:36:06 AM 957 Views
I"m not that fussed. I'm just generally leary of research that has results like that - 04/02/2012 08:35:04 PM 902 Views
Fair enough. - 04/02/2012 10:17:31 PM 972 Views
They restored funding incidentally - 03/02/2012 05:43:47 PM 891 Views
Unless I've missed it - 03/02/2012 05:56:15 PM 978 Views
You must have missed it then - 03/02/2012 07:07:13 PM 894 Views
If you're referring to Cannoli - 03/02/2012 07:19:25 PM 1046 Views
Multiple was not an accidental choice of words - 03/02/2012 11:46:30 PM 923 Views
Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. - 04/02/2012 12:41:42 AM 957 Views
Re: Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. - 04/02/2012 01:53:25 AM 1147 Views
Well, I'll try again for both of us. - 04/02/2012 02:56:42 PM 978 Views
Re: Well, I'll try again for both of us. - 04/02/2012 07:40:25 PM 945 Views
well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision - 03/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1090 Views
I think that ship sailed long ago. - 03/02/2012 08:45:13 PM 897 Views
Truth - 04/02/2012 02:07:20 AM 1001 Views
I do wonder a bit which lawmakers Fox thinks "pressured" Komen. - 03/02/2012 08:29:50 PM 893 Views
are you trying to disprove the study you posted? - 03/02/2012 09:20:12 PM 1022 Views
To me, it depends on the nature of the contact, which I have not dug enough to discover. - 03/02/2012 10:43:45 PM 923 Views
you admit you have no incite into what happened - 04/02/2012 04:27:17 AM 945 Views
Actually, it looks like Komens new VP (and former GOP GA gubernatorial candidate) had the incite. - 04/02/2012 04:24:14 PM 994 Views
educated guess don't work when you are tinfoil hat wearing kool-aid drinker - 04/02/2012 09:33:49 PM 892 Views
Dude. - 04/02/2012 11:20:49 PM 835 Views
Yo mama? - 05/02/2012 05:32:11 AM 989 Views
whhhhhhyyyyyy - 04/02/2012 11:23:58 PM 963 Views
Why would I not think that? - 05/02/2012 05:46:15 AM 863 Views

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