again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
moondog Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but does the government not already have that POWER and AUTHORITY? Are we not talking about legislation that simply expaning the basis on which both can be USED without violating US law? It certainly SOUNDS like the bills under consideration would just streamline the process whereby commerical entities can get government to take down a site for alleged copyright infringement. In terms of government abusing regulatory power, denying all access to sites with content it does not want people to see: It could do that now, yet there is little evidence it does, so I do not see why these bills would change that.</quote
no, currently the feds can only prosecute if the content -- actual CONTENT, not links -- are illegal by nature. the feds have *some* power to shut down websites which perform illegal activities as they should. making filesharing a crime instead of a civil matter is not the best use of our time and energy when there are far more important things to be solved first. the provisions in sopa/pipa would give the central DNS authority of the internet to the federal government, a power it does not currently have and should not ever get. not to mention that by giving the government this power, we would set back the work to make the internet more secure by years, if it could even be implemented once the DNS portion passes.
3
Wait, I am confused: People keep keep saying these bills would "fundamentally alter the internets infrastructure," but you seem to be saying the most populous country on Earth ALREADY engages in the most restrictive practice contained in these bills. It sounds like another case where the government would not gain a new power, but simply EXERCISE an existing one far more often and broadly, on behalf of a lot more commerical interests.
Wait, I am confused: People keep keep saying these bills would "fundamentally alter the internets infrastructure," but you seem to be saying the most populous country on Earth ALREADY engages in the most restrictive practice contained in these bills. It sounds like another case where the government would not gain a new power, but simply EXERCISE an existing one far more often and broadly, on behalf of a lot more commerical interests.
you're saying you want china's model for the internet in the US? the US internet is only able to bring down illegal operations on the internet, it cannot currently block websites at the DNS level. it should never have that power. if this part passes, we may as well just literally put the constitution through a shredder. "congress shall make no law..." and all that stuff.
As far as "changing the internet as we know it," well, it would hardly be the first time. Really, the amount of international public in/output to what is essentially a 40 year old DARPA project is staggering, and huge evidence Big Brother will not arbitrarily trample on the rights of netizens who owe their landscape to it. Yet change is coming, as surely as you no longer plug your phone into a modem and dial up your favorite BBS at a lightning fast 1200 baud rate to read the text only content. The internet has changed many times since we were born, is a lot bigger than even fifteen years ago, and governments regulatory presence WILL change to reflect that. The reasonable and responsible course for anyone concerned by that is to clearly and specifically state the forms they want the presence to take, not demand the government "stay out of" an internet it created, over which it has always retained authority within its borders and that only subsists by government sufferance.
how has the inherent operation of the internet changed from those modem days to now? the only thing it's done fundamentally different is shift from gopher/lynx to http and instituted an addressing scheme that will prevent us from running out of IP addresses. the protocols which control traffic flow have always been decentralized once the educational institutions started jumping on and the old DARPA project went into the public realm. but yet, even in those old days, the government did not have the power to just turn off access to any location it did not want anyone to see. the best you could do was to put a password and/or moderators in place to police the content.
at the heart of what is being proposed, this is the essential argument. the way it works now is that a content creator sends a cease and desist letter (via the DMCA provisions) to a site it believes is infringing their copyright. the site has a specified amount of time to respond, and must temporarily remove the content while the matter is investigated. the way the bill is written, it's up to the admin of each and every site on the internet to check every page they have for infringing links and remove them automatically whether they can be proven to be infringing or not. tell me why it's better to have every website owner in charge of policing someone else's copyright? the reason copyright exists is to give the content creator some means of legal control of their copyright. this bill allows the major studios to stop having to enforce their own copyright and force everyone else to do it for them. the reason it comes down to "make NO legislation" is because the current laws are already adequate and are already abused. why do we need to make something EASIER to abuse than the current system?
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout
17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM
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Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right?
17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM
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"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"?
17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
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I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills?
17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM
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I admit I have not looked into it much
17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM
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And yet you're still arguing the matter.
18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
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I love you. *NM*
18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM
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heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
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Can i second the adulation?
18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM
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I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM
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Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
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Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this.
18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM
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Also, in the case of the OPEN Act, it has not "been proposed for months."
18/01/2012 07:28:15 PM
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"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please.
18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM
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I would not have thought a source necessary.
18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM
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Okay, I'm with Aemon now.
18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM
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OK.
18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM
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should be interesting
17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM
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Could be; depends on a lot of factors.
17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM
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See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding.
17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM
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So tell them that.
17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM
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Joel, I think I'm done with this unless you want to do some research.
18/01/2012 02:53:19 AM
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Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
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Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good.
17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM
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I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust.
17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM
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Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright?
18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM
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There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM
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Re: There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM
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Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
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Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 11:30:39 PM
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Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 04:08:58 PM
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Re: Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 10:39:40 PM
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If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
20/01/2012 09:12:29 PM
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Re: If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
21/01/2012 03:19:49 AM
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Er, what Ghav said.
18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM
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Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments.
18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM
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Okay, another analogy:
18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM
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The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
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what they SHOULD do is stop taking money from proponents of sopa/pipa
18/01/2012 03:51:09 PM
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Yes, they should, but, once again, that approach will not prevent a new law.
18/01/2012 04:05:02 PM
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Re: The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 04:27:30 PM
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If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
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You know all this anti-SOPA bullshit is making me hope the bill passes.
18/01/2012 04:00:17 AM
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I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
18/01/2012 11:41:23 AM
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Re: I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
19/01/2012 01:57:46 AM
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Yeah, the extreme bias on both sides is why the bills will likely pass more or less as written.
19/01/2012 03:31:52 PM
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joel, you need to consider three things
18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM
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You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain.
18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM
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again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
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Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy."
18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM
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if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses
19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM
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How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
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A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP
18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM
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"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin."
18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM
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Wikipedia has already convinced me
18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM
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Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation.
18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM
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It isn't their job to propose legislation
18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM
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No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else.
18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM
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Strike three.
18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM
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That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing.
18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM
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Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me
18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM
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Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no.
18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM
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About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM
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So true
18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM
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Re: About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM
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Hm, you should read my post one above about combatting online piracy.
18/01/2012 06:20:16 PM
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I would not recommend photocopying a book and handing it out on street corners.
18/01/2012 06:45:52 PM
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Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 07:31:18 PM
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Re: Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 08:55:59 PM
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I always liked the codewheels SSI provided with copies of their Gold Box AD&D games.
18/01/2012 10:07:40 PM
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These are really different arguments
19/01/2012 12:05:10 AM
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TV is slightly different, because regional availability becomes a factor.
19/01/2012 04:18:58 PM
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Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM*
18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM
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Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM*
18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM
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Or just disable Java. *NM*
19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM
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That's not as much fun though. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM
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Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM
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I really don't see the fun in that. Wikipedia is just a tool, not a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 04:59:14 AM
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I don't know about those (except French), but none of the ones I ever used are remotely as good. *NM*
18/01/2012 08:13:47 PM
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Russian wikipedia is very good if you're not checking some obscure Western cultural phenomena.
19/01/2012 01:57:43 AM
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Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia...
19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM
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Re: Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... *NM*
19/01/2012 01:34:46 AM
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Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students!
19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
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13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA.
19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM
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How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place?
20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM
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