I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM*
Ray Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM
I don't see why a majority of people wouldn't have some form of photo ID anyways. I suppose there are people who would vote that now won't because they're going to have to spend the time to go get a photo ID, but I don't know how sizable that portion of people is anyways. Most people I've met that are that apathetic about voting are likely to not go if their voting center is too far away. Frankly, I'm not sure I even care about the vote of someone who cares that little. It's unlikely they're going to make an educated and thought out decision anyways. Don't get me wrong, they should still be ALLOWED to vote and no one should take that from them....I'm just not too fussed about the loss of their opinion.
I don't know any nation-wide statistics, but there was a study done in Texas that showed that one million of the state's 13.5 million registered voters did not have photo ID. If you extrapolated that nation-wide (this is rough mental math), you'd have about 20 million registered voters without photo ID in the United States. That's a lot of voters.
And yes, maybe you don't really care what they think if they're too lazy to go get photo ID, and I don't think you'd be alone in that line of thought, but it's still true that this portion of the population is under-represented partially as a result of such laws. So the question is, do you want your government to be fully representative of the interests of all its citizens, or only of the ones who have the time and energy and drive to be involved?
I'm not even American, so I can't answer that question. But it seems a little iffy to me when laws like this are passed by people who know damn well what the results will be ... and by complete coincidence, such laws are usually supported by the party that poor people vote for less often, and opposed by the party that poor people vote for more often. I personally feel that effort should be made to give everyone the best chance at voting, but I definitely acknowledge that a compelling argument can be made the other way, in the vein that you're talking about.
In the 6-3 ruling for the state of IN that found voter ID laws constitutional, the majority explicitly said they knew it only passed because some legislators knew it would give their party an advantage, but that it did not matter because the states other listed justifications for the law were neutral. Basically, they recognized the Trojan Horse as such, then proceeded to wave it through the city gate.
All that said, requiring a photo ID would reduce the risk and probably the reality of voter fraud, so as long as it is free I support it. Most places already required photo ID of people who did not have the voter registration cards mailed out free of charge months before the election, but allowed those who had the card to vote without producing ID. Anyone so inclined could simply find out when the cards would be mailed out, swipe them from mailboxes, and vote as many times as they chose. Worse, since the only provision against fraud was basically just poll workers checking their roles to verify people were registered in that district, then having them sign next to their name, each of the people whose cards were stolen would find, when they arrived at the polls, that they "already voted" and therefore could not cast a ballot.
Ultimately, it is not unreasonable to make voting incumbent on proving a person is who they claim to be, provided it it not a poll tax.
How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community?
15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM
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From what I understand ...
15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM
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but you need a photo ID for so many other things
15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM
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Well.
15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM
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The SCOTUS disagrees with you.
16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM
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I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM*
16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM
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That is kind of pathetic.
17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM
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It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is.
15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM
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That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM*
15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM
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I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate...
15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM
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it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM*
15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM
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Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID.
15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM
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i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM*
15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM
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It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow".
15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM
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Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction
15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM
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This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM*
15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM
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It is not a black and white issue
16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM
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I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM*
16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM
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I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM*
16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM
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that's too obvious.
16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM
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You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit
16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM
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have you ever had a rabbit?
16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM
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A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit
16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM
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that's just what they want you to think.
16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM
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Viscous does not mean Magical
16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM
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Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM*
16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM
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well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her
16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM
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Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this:
15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM
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definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina.
15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM
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You could walk. *NM*
16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM
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Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away
16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM
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7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM*
16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM
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probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless.
16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM
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Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence.
17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM
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No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case
16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM
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It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times...
16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM
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Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM*
16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM
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that would be interesting. *NM*
16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM
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By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.)
17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM
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I don't see how it does
15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM
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Re: I don't see how it does
15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM
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I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV
16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM
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Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM*
16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM
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Also passports work too in most places. *NM*
16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM
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those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM*
16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM
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It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution
16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM
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Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem
16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM
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can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem?
16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM
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In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted
16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM
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That's smoke and mirrors
16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM
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It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point
16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM
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You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system
16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM
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I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article
16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM
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Question for you
16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM
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I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need.
16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM
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becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM*
16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM
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Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM*
16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM
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Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM*
17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM
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I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM*
18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM
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Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM*
18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM
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Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM*
19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM
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If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.)
16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM
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Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community?
16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM
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I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other.
16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM
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I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military
16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM
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I'm not reading the article but...
17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM
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maybe there's no excuse in your area
17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM
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I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot.
18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM
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Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot.
21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM
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What? I'm the only one who cares?
18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM
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Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM*
18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM
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I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM*
18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM
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imo, fervor has no place in political discussion
18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM
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And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics.
18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM
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That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner
18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM
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Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style.
18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM
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What?
18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM
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What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before?
18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM
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the problem with that last point is...
18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM
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Yes.
18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM
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That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though.
18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM
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It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently.
18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM
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What's your real question?
18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM
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Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question.
18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM
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Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised.
19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM
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I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so.
19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM
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