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The SCOTUS disagrees with you. Joel Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM
I don't see why a majority of people wouldn't have some form of photo ID anyways. I suppose there are people who would vote that now won't because they're going to have to spend the time to go get a photo ID, but I don't know how sizable that portion of people is anyways. Most people I've met that are that apathetic about voting are likely to not go if their voting center is too far away. Frankly, I'm not sure I even care about the vote of someone who cares that little. It's unlikely they're going to make an educated and thought out decision anyways. Don't get me wrong, they should still be ALLOWED to vote and no one should take that from them....I'm just not too fussed about the loss of their opinion.


I don't know any nation-wide statistics, but there was a study done in Texas that showed that one million of the state's 13.5 million registered voters did not have photo ID. If you extrapolated that nation-wide (this is rough mental math), you'd have about 20 million registered voters without photo ID in the United States. That's a lot of voters.

And yes, maybe you don't really care what they think if they're too lazy to go get photo ID, and I don't think you'd be alone in that line of thought, but it's still true that this portion of the population is under-represented partially as a result of such laws. So the question is, do you want your government to be fully representative of the interests of all its citizens, or only of the ones who have the time and energy and drive to be involved?

I'm not even American, so I can't answer that question. But it seems a little iffy to me when laws like this are passed by people who know damn well what the results will be ... and by complete coincidence, such laws are usually supported by the party that poor people vote for less often, and opposed by the party that poor people vote for more often. I personally feel that effort should be made to give everyone the best chance at voting, but I definitely acknowledge that a compelling argument can be made the other way, in the vein that you're talking about.

In the 6-3 ruling for the state of IN that found voter ID laws constitutional, the majority explicitly said they knew it only passed because some legislators knew it would give their party an advantage, but that it did not matter because the states other listed justifications for the law were neutral. Basically, they recognized the Trojan Horse as such, then proceeded to wave it through the city gate. :[

All that said, requiring a photo ID would reduce the risk and probably the reality of voter fraud, so as long as it is free I support it. Most places already required photo ID of people who did not have the voter registration cards mailed out free of charge months before the election, but allowed those who had the card to vote without producing ID. Anyone so inclined could simply find out when the cards would be mailed out, swipe them from mailboxes, and vote as many times as they chose. Worse, since the only provision against fraud was basically just poll workers checking their rolls to verify people were registered in that district, then having them sign next to their name, each of the people whose cards were stolen would find, when they arrived at the polls, that they "already voted" and therefore could not cast a ballot.

Ultimately, it is not unreasonable to make voting incumbent on proving a person is who they claim to be, provided it it not a poll tax.
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This message last edited by Joel on 17/01/2012 at 06:35:37 AM
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 1805 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 485 Views
From what I understand ... - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 917 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 812 Views
Well. - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 956 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 522 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 769 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 624 Views
That is kind of pathetic. - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 726 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 671 Views
I cannot speak to that. - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 832 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 821 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 474 Views
Did you read your own article? - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 862 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 820 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 746 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 468 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 816 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 494 Views
I'm magical? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 570 Views
It is not a black and white issue - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 837 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 482 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 513 Views
that's too obvious. - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 805 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 819 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 868 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 879 Views
that's just what they want you to think. - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 749 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 946 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 843 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 933 Views
You could walk. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 477 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 966 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 484 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 870 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 810 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 484 Views
Every state has its own rules - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 847 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 862 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 584 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 495 Views
I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 878 Views
Re: I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 826 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 769 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 514 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 385 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 842 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 497 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 881 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 845 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 817 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 776 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 999 Views
That's smoke and mirrors - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 896 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 821 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 821 Views
Question for you - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 859 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1010 Views
I tend to agree - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 766 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 860 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 882 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 807 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 498 Views
I'm not reading the article but... - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 800 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 740 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 734 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 772 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 978 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 891 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1085 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 845 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 953 Views
What? - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 733 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 957 Views
the problem with that last point is... - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 800 Views
Yes. - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 968 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 724 Views
What's your real question? - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 771 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 870 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1008 Views

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