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It is not a black and white issue Roland00 Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM
1) It is not a black and white issue, there is no one real solution. Both possible forces admit that either way you are going to disenfranchise voters, it is just a question on which side of the line do you draw
a) either by not allowing people to vote for you don't have ids, this disenfranchise potential voters
or
b) there will be a small amount of voter fraud, voter fraud by definition disenfranchises voters that did vote

Moreover very few people are saying there is a large amount of voter fraud in the US and even if there was a large amount it is questionable if voter ids laws will fix it. (Many forms of ballot stuffing will not be fixed by voter id laws).

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2) Furthermore most people in this thread have been humble about their points. They have not made outlandish claims or spirit remarks. In addition no one to my knowledge have challenged another poster.

Remaining civil, being humble, and refraining from being an asshole usually increases the chance of a calm and polite discussion.
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 1878 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* Palatine - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 523 Views
From what I understand ... Nate - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 991 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 882 Views
Well. Nate - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1013 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 560 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. Joel - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 843 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 658 Views
That is kind of pathetic. Joel - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 788 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account Ray - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 713 Views
I cannot speak to that. Joel - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 904 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 886 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 498 Views
Did you read your own article? Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 934 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 895 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... Burr - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 819 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 497 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. Burr - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 887 Views
i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM 715 Views
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow". Tom - 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM 957 Views
Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM 908 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* Nate - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 518 Views
I'm magical? *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 593 Views
It is not a black and white issue Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 906 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 507 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 535 Views
that's too obvious. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 873 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 890 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 935 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 949 Views
that's just what they want you to think. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 826 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1021 Views
Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM 519 Views
well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her Ray - 16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM 864 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: jh - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 949 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1015 Views
You could walk. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 508 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1037 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 511 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 938 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. Sareitha Sedai - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 884 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 511 Views
Every state has its own rules Isaac - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 919 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case Isaac - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 938 Views
It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times... MightyYT - 16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM 928 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* Palatine - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 618 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 525 Views
By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.) Palatine - 17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM 911 Views
I don't see how it does A Deathwatch Guard - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 959 Views
Re: I don't see how it does Nate - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 890 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 841 Views
Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM* Nate - 16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM 449 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 542 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 419 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above A Deathwatch Guard - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 917 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 532 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 966 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. Joel - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 948 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 890 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? Ray - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 847 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1070 Views
That's smoke and mirrors Isaac - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 962 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 901 Views
You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system random thoughts - 16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM 844 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article Isaac - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 902 Views
Question for you Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 943 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. Isaac - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1084 Views
I tend to agree Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 834 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting Isaac - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 933 Views
becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM 597 Views
Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM* dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM 547 Views
Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM* Nate - 17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM 520 Views
I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM* random thoughts - 18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM 539 Views
Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM 522 Views
Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM 552 Views
If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.) Joel - 16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM 790 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 954 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 886 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 528 Views
I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other. Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM 918 Views
I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM 893 Views
I'm not reading the article but... callandor1000 - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 876 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 821 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. Sareitha Sedai - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 807 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 837 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1074 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. Sareitha Sedai - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 973 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. callandor1000 - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1162 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 916 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? Vivien - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1022 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* Isaac - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 530 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* Vivien - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 521 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 876 Views
And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM 874 Views
That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM 1007 Views
Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style. Vivien - 18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM 945 Views
What? Amyrlin - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 802 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1028 Views
the problem with that last point is... LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 864 Views
Yes. Vivien - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1037 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though. LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM 912 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. Vivien - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM 1113 Views
but my point is that it wasn't the government making those calls LadyLorraine - 19/01/2012 12:09:17 AM 855 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. Amyrlin - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 791 Views
What's your real question? Palatine - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 843 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 945 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. Palatine - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1079 Views
I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so. Vivien - 19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 959 Views
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