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In case you were curious, I really disagree with your understanding of tolerance. *NM* Vivien Send a noteboard - 09/01/2012 08:24:45 PM
Your first paragraph is meaningless. Again, tolerance is not about being okay with stuff that you are not personally into. If you believe that homosexuality is perfectlly fine and you are not offended by homosexual behavior, then there is no tolerance required, even though you aren't into it.

Tolerance is not about being okay with people that like vanilla when you like chocolate. Tolerance is being at peace with people eating vanilla when you think it is wrong to eat vanilla and that it is bad for individuals and society.

I am tolerant with my children when I am bothered by what they do but am patient with them. A person with high pain tolerance is not a person that feels no pain, but a person that can feel a lot of pain and still function.

So yes I believe that accepting homosexuality as just fine does not make a heterosexual person tolerant. Advocating for homosexual rights (while being heterosexual) does not make one tolerant.

A tolerant person is one who is bothered or offended by the notion that homosexuality is immoral, but is patient and at peace with those that hold it. Likewise a tolerant person is one that finds homosexuality to be wrong or sinful, but endures it in others and is at peace with it.

So in my opinion the tough question is how much should people tolerate. We would all agree that we should not tolerate murder. But there isn't agreement on gay marriage. Some people won't tolerate those who want to redefine marriage to something it has never been. Others won't tolerate those who want to deny homosexuals the right to marry each other. We all believe tolerance should be limited.

For me, I believe it is most important for people to not hate each other. Many people who claim that they want love to rule are in fact filled with hatred for those that oppose them. You can't have it both ways. I know people that are true homophobes; they hate gay people. I know some that truly hate those that oppose homosexual marriage. How do you know the haters? They are the most vitriolic, angry, and quickest to dehumanize their opponents. And both sides of the issue are swarming with them.

For those that are Christian, the Apostle John asks a searching question: (paraphrasing) "How can you claim to love God whom you have not seen, when you hate your brother whom you have seen?" And Jesus himself said (paraphrasing various verses), if you love only them that love you, what good have you done? Everybody does that. Love your enemy, pray for them that persecute you, etc...

The equivalence to homosexuality tolerance and acceptance is tolerance and acceptance of heterosexuality, not tolerance and acceptance of homophobia.

Seeing it differently is perfectly ok- what's not ok is if someone's "seeing it differently" means taking choice/agency/freedom from other people. It's ok to be personally not into gay sex or birth control but it's a problem if you seek to also tell others what they can and cannot do. However, they are totally free to be homophobic in the privacy of their own homes.

For example, when we were watching the show where everyone stopped dying and they were scenes of 2 men, my dad would fast forward through them. [And I actually sat through the first episode of Spartacus with both my parents because we did not know what we were in for but somehow there was no fast forwarding there]

One group thinks homosexual behavior is wrong. Another group thinks it is wrong to think homosexual behavior is wrong. One group claims to be the tolerant group, but it is hardly tolerance to embrace what you think is perfectly acceptable while villifying those who think differently.

I think a better definition of tolerance is living at peace with what you find objectionable. There are tolerant people on both sides of the argument, though far fewer than would tag themselves so. The trick is to rise above the desire to villify those who honestly see it differently than you.

That is why we come up with labels like pro-choice and pro-life, to give the implication that the other side is anti-life or anti-choice. Why do you like seeing babies die? Why do you like rippping agency from women? Those who see it differently than you are patently evil. The oldest trick in the political/religous/sports/social/anything book is to dehumanize those who oppose you so that you can unleash all of your vitriol and frustration against them without restraint. Afterall, why should you show restraint when the otherside has willfully and knowingly chosen to work for Satan?
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Santorum is #2 in Iowa - 04/01/2012 01:24:13 PM 1736 Views
would you stop using that word? It is gross. *NM* - 04/01/2012 01:48:45 PM 565 Views
What's your word for it? *NM* - 04/01/2012 03:43:44 PM 521 Views
Rövsmör. *NM* - 04/01/2012 09:50:21 PM 517 Views
Den var ny för mig. - 06/01/2012 12:12:07 AM 670 Views
yeah that it so funny - 04/01/2012 03:05:59 PM 923 Views
he kind of brought it on himself by being so decidedly anti-gay that it pissed lots of people off - 04/01/2012 04:36:39 PM 966 Views
maybe the gays brought all the gay bashing on themselves - 05/01/2012 03:18:15 PM 1160 Views
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so now that the gays have broken that contract they are fair game? - 05/01/2012 06:37:52 PM 679 Views
Question have you read the Santorum interview? *NM* - 05/01/2012 06:50:24 PM 483 Views
no I try to avoid him - 06/01/2012 06:17:45 PM 786 Views
That's too harsh. - 06/01/2012 07:29:05 PM 900 Views
While language changes with time - 07/01/2012 04:13:28 AM 918 Views
I have to agree. Reluctantly. - 04/01/2012 06:19:13 PM 969 Views
Actually, your response was expected - 04/01/2012 10:08:33 PM 1020 Views
don't forget.... - 05/01/2012 02:27:49 AM 912 Views
do you still pretend that it isn't political? - 05/01/2012 03:14:25 PM 855 Views
I'm sorry - 05/01/2012 03:52:57 PM 961 Views
funny how it always woks out that way - 05/01/2012 06:44:55 PM 765 Views
Believe what you will, but my wok skills are poor - 05/01/2012 07:32:17 PM 925 Views
You should ask one of the gays to help you. I hear the gays are good at cooking. *NM* - 06/01/2012 01:54:21 AM 610 Views
Queer stove eye for the straight guy? - 06/01/2012 09:05:48 PM 833 Views
try using more heat and better oil *NM* - 06/01/2012 06:18:19 PM 496 Views
Corn oil? - 06/01/2012 09:05:09 PM 786 Views
Peanut *NM* - 06/01/2012 11:27:49 PM 527 Views
Santorum is a man who believes you must compare homosexual love to bestiality and pedophilia - 05/01/2012 04:42:26 AM 932 Views
and Savage is a Man who believes that vulgar personal attacks - 05/01/2012 03:12:42 PM 1079 Views
Why should a person tolerate intolerance? (Serious question.) *NM* - 05/01/2012 08:46:05 PM 641 Views
The question boils down to why should someone tolerate what they think is wrong. - 05/01/2012 10:53:40 PM 897 Views
and when santorum tells you that your lifestyle is worse than pedophilia and bestiality? - 06/01/2012 03:34:52 AM 851 Views
To be fair... - 06/01/2012 05:32:31 AM 995 Views
You are correct - 06/01/2012 01:21:18 PM 1048 Views
Then it seems like it's a problem of definitions more than anything else. - 06/01/2012 09:48:49 PM 956 Views
Following the logic to its bitter end. Why do I do this to myself??? - 06/01/2012 10:14:01 PM 1016 Views
Santourm is - 07/01/2012 04:24:45 AM 971 Views
I'm fairly sure your theory is wrong. - 06/01/2012 10:42:14 PM 1022 Views
so Obama offended me by attending a racist America hating church - 06/01/2012 05:32:14 PM 873 Views
Those are really not equivalent. - 06/01/2012 04:18:37 PM 811 Views
Re: Those are really not equivalent. - 06/01/2012 10:27:11 PM 943 Views
In case you were curious, I really disagree with your understanding of tolerance. *NM* - 09/01/2012 08:24:45 PM 597 Views
But being the tolerant person that you are... - 09/01/2012 09:01:10 PM 863 Views
This. - 07/01/2012 01:35:43 PM 832 Views
I agree, lets shoot anyone who doesn't think like you *NM* - 06/01/2012 05:17:41 PM 496 Views
I'm really conflicted about the whole Santorum thing. - 06/01/2012 07:42:02 PM 893 Views
I find myself agreeing with you recently - 06/01/2012 08:38:37 PM 930 Views
dude, gross! *NM* - 04/01/2012 04:39:34 PM 504 Views
Dear Iowa, - 04/01/2012 08:04:09 PM 927 Views
So at this point, most of the candidates had a moment at the top. Kind of awesome. - 05/01/2012 11:22:50 PM 920 Views
that is why Perry is staying in the race - 06/01/2012 06:20:54 PM 890 Views
It would be the joke of the year if Huntsman got a turn. - 06/01/2012 10:59:36 PM 842 Views
Is he a bigger long shot than Santorum, though? Gingrich? Bachman? CAIN!? - 07/01/2012 01:34:47 AM 941 Views
Yes, for the reason you state. - 07/01/2012 03:04:39 PM 902 Views
I really do not agree. - 09/01/2012 08:51:46 PM 931 Views
he is moving up in New Hampshire - 10/01/2012 05:16:14 PM 1022 Views
More like everyone has had a moment running second to Romney. - 07/01/2012 01:59:25 PM 826 Views
It's not a foregone conclusion yet. - 07/01/2012 04:03:51 PM 939 Views
give up the hope it is nothing more than a pipe dream - 09/01/2012 02:57:03 PM 947 Views
All of the republican candidates are pipe dreams. - 09/01/2012 08:56:57 PM 751 Views
I find Ron Paul absolutely infuriating. - 09/01/2012 10:44:09 PM 1016 Views
Weed is kinda important - 10/01/2012 03:31:00 PM 791 Views
So is women's health. About 50% of US. *NM* - 13/01/2012 01:46:15 AM 547 Views
Um... - 10/01/2012 03:54:53 PM 848 Views
is an ass - 10/01/2012 05:10:09 PM 984 Views
I would like to see that enforced. - 10/01/2012 05:39:22 PM 1323 Views
So segregation when done by private businesses is ok? - 11/01/2012 02:20:32 PM 1026 Views
Define "OK." - 11/01/2012 08:29:09 PM 907 Views
Paul is an equal opportunity infuriator, to borrow Vivien's word. - 09/01/2012 10:56:57 PM 912 Views
I agree with you completely. - 10/01/2012 12:06:19 PM 933 Views
while I, of course, disagree with your conclusion. - 10/01/2012 02:21:46 PM 1363 Views
Re: while I, of course, disagree with your conclusion. - 10/01/2012 07:38:39 PM 925 Views
Ron Paul's biggest problem is isn't a republican - 10/01/2012 04:18:16 PM 933 Views

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