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Your position isn't rational nor logical Helene Send a noteboard - 20/12/2011 12:45:03 PM
Certainly, there are plenty of people who do lie about these things - for recognition, in lying to themselves, for fun, pathologically or otherwise - and others who exaggerate experience or self-select.


People don't need to lie to be mistaken.

Even taking that into account, there is a tremendous level of consistency with which certain "spiritual" experiences take place. We know that people are sometimes able to exhibit superhuman strength, tossing aside cars and whatnot. Sheer physics tells us this should not be possible.


Physics tells us that bumblebees can't fly... Oh, and I have like the anti-prediction thing going on. Once I was at a party and 3 people weren't there yet. I said, three times, that one particular person wasn't going to show up. Every single time, the bell rang immediately after and it was that person.
-> God exists!

In other words, your conclusion is a deus ex machina.

It is common for the dying to see the dead, about a month or so before their own deaths (and thus not part of any "brain death hallucination").


No it's not common for the dying to see the dead. But if I want to see the dead, I can convince myself that I see my grandmother sitting on the couch right now. I won't, because she's not and it wouldn't be good for my mental health to pretend that she is.

Maybe it's true in certain cultures that people see the dead before they're dying, but that just shows that those cultures are more prone to convince themselves that they see dead people when they start to feel bad.

Many people see people at the moment of that person's death in a place the person cannot be (i.e., the "I saw my uncle in the dining room and said, 'How nice of you to visit!' and then when I went to tell my wife, he was gone. My aunt called then and said he had died 300 miles away").


Again, this does not support the existence of a god. This maybe supports the existence of an extra sense, or coincidence. Imagine all the uncles and aunts dying continuously, and how frequently such visions occur? It's bound to be right some of the time.

Dismissing all of this as "the world is lying to me" or "people are lying to themselves" is very difficult. The numbers are much higher than, say, alien abduction stories, and so dismissing it as hysteria or schizophrenia or a similar disorder is extremely flippant.


I don't find it difficult to dismiss a lot of people as irrational and delusional. In fact, I find that a lot of people are extremely irrational, and quite frequently delusional. I would use the term mass psychosis though.

In other words, atheism goes against anecdotal evidence that rises to a level that it cannot be merely discounted and swept under the rug.


Anecdotal evidence for god? Really? That's what you are going to go with? People are unreliable. Do you realize how many women (and men) were killed after being accused of witchcraft? There was plenty of anecdotal evidence to support witchcraft, too.

So witchcraft must exist and it cannot be merely discounted and swept under the rug.

Btw, based on what you told us about yourself, you appear to be a witch, and should be burned at the stake.
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Kim Jong-il is dead. Would you become a fervent believer? - 19/12/2011 03:37:28 AM 1532 Views
If I was a Christian, I'd pray that he would burn forever in hell. - 19/12/2011 03:47:52 AM 941 Views
See, I can't be an atheist. - 19/12/2011 03:53:55 AM 908 Views
I agree about atheism - 19/12/2011 04:19:02 AM 771 Views
It's an approximation. - 19/12/2011 05:40:05 PM 792 Views
no, I'm not saying that the sheer number of people alone is sufficient - 19/12/2011 10:13:09 PM 675 Views
Re: See, I can't be an atheist. - 19/12/2011 04:25:06 AM 765 Views
No, Pascal's Wager is stupid. - 19/12/2011 03:09:42 PM 774 Views
You obviously misread my comments or ignored them. - 19/12/2011 03:39:59 PM 762 Views
You're answering a different point to the one I was addressing. - 19/12/2011 04:01:54 PM 693 Views
For atheism to be a tenable position, one must assume that millions lie about their experiences. - 20/12/2011 04:11:53 AM 784 Views
Look, doesn't this go against your most sacred principle? - 20/12/2011 06:43:27 AM 747 Views
I'm pretty sure he's not saying it's undeniable proof. - 20/12/2011 09:19:44 AM 709 Views
No, it doesn't. - 20/12/2011 08:30:55 PM 672 Views
Re: No, it doesn't. - 20/12/2011 09:21:22 PM 717 Views
This militant atheism is somewhat amusing. - 20/12/2011 09:48:57 PM 735 Views
... somewhat irrational at times too - 21/12/2011 01:22:54 AM 649 Views
Huh? - 21/12/2011 10:47:06 AM 694 Views
That's somewhat unrelated to the intended point of the post - 21/12/2011 12:41:49 PM 701 Views
My "Huh?" was at your claim that any reasonable definition Kim Jong-il was a millitant athiest - 21/12/2011 12:58:44 PM 696 Views
You're objecting to me calling the Military Dictator militant? - 21/12/2011 03:13:35 PM 733 Views
Is that the long way of saying you can't back up what you said? - 21/12/2011 04:06:06 PM 659 Views
Okay - 21/12/2011 05:03:07 PM 759 Views
Your position isn't rational nor logical - 20/12/2011 12:45:03 PM 722 Views
How about a faith atheist? - 19/12/2011 04:28:59 PM 842 Views
Nevermind. It appears you answered that in your reply to Tim. *NM* - 19/12/2011 04:32:19 PM 409 Views
Re: See, I can't be an atheist. - 19/12/2011 04:57:23 PM 797 Views
Sounds like you must be a modern-day prophet - 19/12/2011 05:24:24 PM 641 Views
Well, it's *possible* that he is. - 19/12/2011 05:49:34 PM 741 Views
Hah, fair enough - 19/12/2011 06:47:07 PM 691 Views
Idiocy. Confirmation bias doesn't explain away external phenomena. - 20/12/2011 04:19:10 AM 771 Views
Well. - 21/12/2011 01:49:36 PM 680 Views
I didn't forget about it. I was getting ready to give up on it. - 21/12/2011 02:27:18 PM 673 Views
That doesn't really make sense. - 21/12/2011 03:04:23 PM 573 Views
No, it does make perfect sense. - 21/12/2011 06:17:02 PM 711 Views
Also, learn to use the subjunctive. It's "if I WERE a Christian..." - 19/12/2011 03:54:20 AM 761 Views
The sad thing about that comment... - 19/12/2011 04:52:57 AM 888 Views
I really am gonna miss Hitchens...a lot *NM* *NM* - 19/12/2011 04:06:50 AM 355 Views
I will miss him, too...a lot. *NM* - 19/12/2011 04:17:05 AM 338 Views
so, hypothetically...if I was to send you a list of people... - 19/12/2011 04:25:47 AM 716 Views
Let's not try that. - 20/12/2011 04:21:35 AM 677 Views
I'm so ronery - 19/12/2011 06:36:38 AM 763 Views
I thought you were asking if I believed in KJ-I, the Eternal Leader - 19/12/2011 06:55:08 AM 663 Views
You know what's really weird? - 19/12/2011 11:32:23 AM 736 Views
It has been there for 6 hours at this stage. - 19/12/2011 12:34:57 PM 807 Views
don't forget Mugabe (sp) - 19/12/2011 01:06:24 PM 640 Views
Zimbabwe basically is dust by now. *NM* - 19/12/2011 02:52:51 PM 336 Views
They took it down, apparently. *NM* - 20/12/2011 04:40:24 AM 318 Views
Turns out Kim Jong really was il? - 19/12/2011 12:10:15 PM 691 Views
all praise Madokami! *NM* - 19/12/2011 01:03:26 PM 405 Views
He's not dead-dead. Neither is his father. Just ask the North Koreans. - 19/12/2011 04:23:48 PM 722 Views
Re: He's not dead-dead. Neither is his father. Just ask the North Koreans. - 19/12/2011 09:15:09 PM 641 Views
That happened to me too. - 19/12/2011 09:45:48 PM 781 Views
Re: That happened to me too. - 19/12/2011 09:48:36 PM 643 Views
Re: Legend - 20/12/2011 04:54:40 PM 654 Views
I wonder if they're going to embalm him? - 20/12/2011 04:39:33 AM 589 Views
The problem with predictions that come true - 19/12/2011 05:28:24 PM 759 Views
I don't make a lot of predictions. *NM* - 19/12/2011 08:18:53 PM 454 Views
Just ones about old, sick guys dying? *NM* - 19/12/2011 09:51:12 PM 304 Views
No, sadly. - 20/12/2011 04:31:44 AM 587 Views
I can attest to the fact that this conversation took place on Facebook Saturday. - 19/12/2011 09:19:06 PM 682 Views
Yeah, I thought that reply seemed in the wrong place - 19/12/2011 09:28:17 PM 680 Views
Re: Yeah, I thought that reply seemed in the wrong place - 19/12/2011 09:31:00 PM 669 Views
Yes, TMJ, you also contributed in this case. *NM* - 20/12/2011 04:38:42 AM 306 Views
I am not a dog to be petted! - 21/12/2011 02:42:55 AM 651 Views
HAHAHAHA!!!! *NM* - 21/12/2011 05:31:06 AM 393 Views
Coincidentally, I found this site today - 19/12/2011 10:57:36 PM 702 Views
Oh, I liked that site. I found it a few years ago. *NM* - 20/12/2011 04:37:04 AM 306 Views
Jeez, I hope I never get on your bad side - 20/12/2011 12:06:54 AM 607 Views
Things did change for the better with Stalin's death. - 20/12/2011 02:51:12 AM 718 Views
Not for Stalin *NM* - 20/12/2011 09:49:39 PM 369 Views
eh, you can't have everything - 20/12/2011 11:08:36 PM 604 Views
Not to downplay your awesomely uncanny coincidence... - 20/12/2011 01:19:33 PM 673 Views

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