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no, I'm not saying that the sheer number of people alone is sufficient LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 19/12/2011 10:13:09 PM
Nor that those people are correct by force of majority.

I will clarify what I was trying to say. If billions of people have had some perception of "something", whatever they call it, I think it is worth thinking about. I really doubt any one person/group is correct. But it's like...if 75% of a town see an airplane above their town, then it is worth considering if there was an airplane above the town, isn't it? Maybe they're wrong, or maybe they're right, but it's at least worth investigating. Provided you're in to airplanes, anyway, but that's just nitpicking the analogy and you get my point :P

Also, I think a lot of people pigeonhole "atheism" when they talk about just believing in God (or not) (I don't even see MANY people directly talk about non-Christian gods). My definition of an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in ANYTHING religious or spiritual. If someone does not believe in a deity, but believes that there is some spiritual aspect to life, then I would not label them an atheist. It's definitely a more nitpicky and particular definition and I'm aware some people disagree and label themselves accordingly. That's fine by me.

It does affect how I label myself, though. I am 99.999...% sure there is no God, or gods as we know them. However I am not going to round that specific value up to the statement "100% no deities; I am atheist", because I do believe there is something that many would label "supernatural" or "spiritual" or whatever. I'm not aware enough or knowing enough of it to try to define it. I just believe that it's there, and so I don't want to call myself an atheist.
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Kim Jong-il is dead. Would you become a fervent believer? Tom - 19/12/2011 03:37:28 AM 1532 Views
If I was a Christian, I'd pray that he would burn forever in hell. Great Lord of Chaos - 19/12/2011 03:47:52 AM 941 Views
See, I can't be an atheist. Tom - 19/12/2011 03:53:55 AM 908 Views
I agree about atheism LadyLorraine - 19/12/2011 04:19:02 AM 770 Views
It's an approximation. Vivien - 19/12/2011 05:40:05 PM 792 Views
no, I'm not saying that the sheer number of people alone is sufficient LadyLorraine - 19/12/2011 10:13:09 PM 675 Views
Re: See, I can't be an atheist. Great Lord of Chaos - 19/12/2011 04:25:06 AM 765 Views
No, Pascal's Wager is stupid. Tim - 19/12/2011 03:09:42 PM 774 Views
You obviously misread my comments or ignored them. Tom - 19/12/2011 03:39:59 PM 762 Views
You're answering a different point to the one I was addressing. Tim - 19/12/2011 04:01:54 PM 693 Views
For atheism to be a tenable position, one must assume that millions lie about their experiences. Tom - 20/12/2011 04:11:53 AM 784 Views
Look, doesn't this go against your most sacred principle? jh - 20/12/2011 06:43:27 AM 747 Views
I'm pretty sure he's not saying it's undeniable proof. LadyLorraine - 20/12/2011 09:19:44 AM 709 Views
No, it doesn't. Tom - 20/12/2011 08:30:55 PM 672 Views
Re: No, it doesn't. jh - 20/12/2011 09:21:22 PM 717 Views
This militant atheism is somewhat amusing. Tom - 20/12/2011 09:48:57 PM 735 Views
... somewhat irrational at times too Isaac - 21/12/2011 01:22:54 AM 649 Views
Huh? snoopcester - 21/12/2011 10:47:06 AM 694 Views
That's somewhat unrelated to the intended point of the post Isaac - 21/12/2011 12:41:49 PM 701 Views
My "Huh?" was at your claim that any reasonable definition Kim Jong-il was a millitant athiest snoopcester - 21/12/2011 12:58:44 PM 696 Views
You're objecting to me calling the Military Dictator militant? Isaac - 21/12/2011 03:13:35 PM 733 Views
Is that the long way of saying you can't back up what you said? snoopcester - 21/12/2011 04:06:06 PM 659 Views
Okay Isaac - 21/12/2011 05:03:07 PM 759 Views
Your position isn't rational nor logical Helene - 20/12/2011 12:45:03 PM 721 Views
I never stated it was either. That's the problem with spiritual matters. Tom - 20/12/2011 08:43:46 PM 649 Views
How about a faith atheist? Palatine - 19/12/2011 04:28:59 PM 842 Views
Nevermind. It appears you answered that in your reply to Tim. *NM* Palatine - 19/12/2011 04:32:19 PM 409 Views
Re: See, I can't be an atheist. snoopcester - 19/12/2011 04:57:23 PM 797 Views
It's impossible to tell if worshipping a false god would be worse than worshipping no god at all. Tom - 20/12/2011 04:14:59 AM 606 Views
Sounds like you must be a modern-day prophet beetnemesis - 19/12/2011 05:24:24 PM 641 Views
Well, it's *possible* that he is. Vivien - 19/12/2011 05:49:34 PM 741 Views
Hah, fair enough beetnemesis - 19/12/2011 06:47:07 PM 691 Views
Idiocy. Confirmation bias doesn't explain away external phenomena. Tom - 20/12/2011 04:19:10 AM 771 Views
Well. Sareitha Sedai - 21/12/2011 01:49:36 PM 680 Views
I didn't forget about it. I was getting ready to give up on it. Tom - 21/12/2011 02:27:18 PM 673 Views
That doesn't really make sense. Sareitha Sedai - 21/12/2011 03:04:23 PM 573 Views
No, it does make perfect sense. Tom - 21/12/2011 06:17:02 PM 711 Views
Also, learn to use the subjunctive. It's "if I WERE a Christian..." Tom - 19/12/2011 03:54:20 AM 761 Views
The sad thing about that comment... Larry - 19/12/2011 04:52:57 AM 888 Views
I'm pretty sure there's plenty of middle ground between those two examples LadyLorraine - 19/12/2011 05:31:13 PM 659 Views
Tom is right. Agnosticism is really the only rational posistion. Urza - 20/12/2011 04:17:08 AM 646 Views
Tom, I think this means you should take up ForEx trading. *NM* Urza - 19/12/2011 04:00:20 AM 359 Views
I might. I'm close enough to it as is. I just did some ForEx ISDAs for clients... Tom - 19/12/2011 04:03:11 AM 825 Views
I really am gonna miss Hitchens...a lot *NM* *NM* Roland00 - 19/12/2011 04:06:50 AM 355 Views
I will miss him, too...a lot. *NM* Tom - 19/12/2011 04:17:05 AM 338 Views
so, hypothetically...if I was to send you a list of people... LadyLorraine - 19/12/2011 04:25:47 AM 716 Views
Let's not try that. Tom - 20/12/2011 04:21:35 AM 677 Views
I'm so ronery 김정일 - 19/12/2011 06:36:38 AM 763 Views
I thought you were asking if I believed in KJ-I, the Eternal Leader Praziquantel - 19/12/2011 06:55:08 AM 663 Views
The article I just read said he died on Saturday. Rebekah - 19/12/2011 08:58:17 AM 740 Views
Yeah, he actually died on a train Saturday morning before Tom made the comment. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 19/12/2011 09:13:44 PM 301 Views
I'm not claiming causality. And, for the record, I first made the comment on Friday afternoon. Tom - 20/12/2011 04:25:07 AM 735 Views
You know what's really weird? Isaac - 19/12/2011 11:32:23 AM 736 Views
It has been there for 6 hours at this stage. Stephen - 19/12/2011 12:34:57 PM 807 Views
don't forget Mugabe (sp) Yunalesca - 19/12/2011 01:06:24 PM 640 Views
Zimbabwe basically is dust by now. *NM* Tim - 19/12/2011 02:52:51 PM 336 Views
They took it down, apparently. *NM* Tom - 20/12/2011 04:40:24 AM 318 Views
Not surprising, still in the revisions if anyone wants to see of course Isaac - 20/12/2011 11:06:05 AM 880 Views
Turns out Kim Jong really was il? snoopcester - 19/12/2011 12:10:15 PM 691 Views
all praise Madokami! *NM* Yunalesca - 19/12/2011 01:03:26 PM 405 Views
He's not dead-dead. Neither is his father. Just ask the North Koreans. Palatine - 19/12/2011 04:23:48 PM 722 Views
Re: He's not dead-dead. Neither is his father. Just ask the North Koreans. TaskmasterJack - 19/12/2011 09:15:09 PM 641 Views
That happened to me too. Nate - 19/12/2011 09:45:48 PM 781 Views
Re: That happened to me too. TaskmasterJack - 19/12/2011 09:48:36 PM 643 Views
Re: Legend Palatine - 20/12/2011 04:54:40 PM 654 Views
I wonder if they're going to embalm him? Tom - 20/12/2011 04:39:33 AM 589 Views
The problem with predictions that come true Vivien - 19/12/2011 05:28:24 PM 759 Views
I don't make a lot of predictions. *NM* Tom - 19/12/2011 08:18:53 PM 454 Views
Well you should start at least journaling the ones that you do make. Vivien - 19/12/2011 08:40:18 PM 710 Views
I actually now do tell my friends when I have dreams that have the "feel" to them. Tom - 20/12/2011 04:36:07 AM 780 Views
Just ones about old, sick guys dying? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 19/12/2011 09:51:12 PM 304 Views
No, sadly. Tom - 20/12/2011 04:31:44 AM 586 Views
I can attest to the fact that this conversation took place on Facebook Saturday. TaskmasterJack - 19/12/2011 09:19:06 PM 682 Views
Yeah, I thought that reply seemed in the wrong place Isaac - 19/12/2011 09:28:17 PM 680 Views
Re: Yeah, I thought that reply seemed in the wrong place TaskmasterJack - 19/12/2011 09:31:00 PM 669 Views
Yes, TMJ, you also contributed in this case. *NM* Tom - 20/12/2011 04:38:42 AM 306 Views
I am not a dog to be petted! TaskmasterJack - 21/12/2011 02:42:55 AM 651 Views
HAHAHAHA!!!! *NM* Tom - 21/12/2011 05:31:06 AM 393 Views
Coincidentally, I found this site today kHz1000 - 19/12/2011 10:57:36 PM 702 Views
Oh, I liked that site. I found it a few years ago. *NM* Tom - 20/12/2011 04:37:04 AM 306 Views
Jeez, I hope I never get on your bad side ironclad - 20/12/2011 12:06:54 AM 607 Views
Things did change for the better with Stalin's death. Vivien - 20/12/2011 02:51:12 AM 718 Views
Not for Stalin *NM* Tom - 20/12/2011 09:49:39 PM 369 Views
eh, you can't have everything Yunalesca - 20/12/2011 11:08:36 PM 604 Views
So I guess you want me to destroy the voodoo doll I have of you? Oh wait...never mind. *NM* Tom - 20/12/2011 04:37:35 AM 297 Views
Not to downplay your awesomely uncanny coincidence... Avendesora - 20/12/2011 01:19:33 PM 673 Views
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