I have attached a print version of the charter for the Hudson's Bay Company, which is similar to all original royal charters for the oldest corporations. You will note, at line 67, that the crucial statement is made that the company shall be considered a "person" (I pasted in the entire clause):
WEE DOE make ordeyne constitute establish confirme and declare
62 by these Presentes and that by the same name of Governor &
63 Company of Adventurers of England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay they
64 shall have perpetuall succession And that they and theire
65 successors by the name of Governor and Company of Adventurers of
66 England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay bee and at all tymes hereafter
67 shall bee persons able and capable in Law to have purchase
68 receive possesse enjoy and reteyne Landes Rentes priviledges
69 libertyes Jurisdiccions Franchyses and hereditamentes of what
70 kinde nature and quality soever they bee to them and theire
71 Successors And alsoe to give grant demise alien assigne and
72 dispose Landes Tenementes and hereditamentes and to doe and
73 execute all and singuler other thinges by the same name that to
74 them shall or may apperteyne to doe And that they and theire
75 Successors by the name of the Governor and Company of Adventurers
76 of England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay may pleade and bee impleaded
77 answeare and bee answeared defend and bee defended in whatsoever
78 Courtes and places before whatsoever Judges and Justices and
79 other persons and Officers in all and singular Accions Pleas
80 Suitts Quarrells causes and demandes whatsoever of whatsoever
81 kinde nature or sort in such manner and forme as any other our
82 Liege people of this our Realme of England being persons able and
83 capable in Lawe may or can have purchase receive possesse enjoy
84 reteyne give grant demise alien assigne dispose pleade defend and
85 bee defended doe permit and execute And that the said Governor
86 and Company of Adventurers of England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay
87 and their successors may have a Common Seale to serve for all the
88 causes and busnesses of them and theire Successors and that itt
89 shall and may bee lawfull to the said Governor and Company and
90 theire Successors the same Seall from tyme to tyme at theire will
91 and pleasure to breake change and to make a new or alter as them
92 shall seeme expedient.
Every corporate charter is premised on this fundamental point. The Dutch East India Company has a similar provision but the English common law tradition uses the word "person" as a legal term in a way that the civil law tradition of the Continent did not, at least uniformly, prior to the Code Napoleon.
WEE DOE make ordeyne constitute establish confirme and declare
62 by these Presentes and that by the same name of Governor &
63 Company of Adventurers of England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay they
64 shall have perpetuall succession And that they and theire
65 successors by the name of Governor and Company of Adventurers of
66 England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay bee and at all tymes hereafter
67 shall bee persons able and capable in Law to have purchase
68 receive possesse enjoy and reteyne Landes Rentes priviledges
69 libertyes Jurisdiccions Franchyses and hereditamentes of what
70 kinde nature and quality soever they bee to them and theire
71 Successors And alsoe to give grant demise alien assigne and
72 dispose Landes Tenementes and hereditamentes and to doe and
73 execute all and singuler other thinges by the same name that to
74 them shall or may apperteyne to doe And that they and theire
75 Successors by the name of the Governor and Company of Adventurers
76 of England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay may pleade and bee impleaded
77 answeare and bee answeared defend and bee defended in whatsoever
78 Courtes and places before whatsoever Judges and Justices and
79 other persons and Officers in all and singular Accions Pleas
80 Suitts Quarrells causes and demandes whatsoever of whatsoever
81 kinde nature or sort in such manner and forme as any other our
82 Liege people of this our Realme of England being persons able and
83 capable in Lawe may or can have purchase receive possesse enjoy
84 reteyne give grant demise alien assigne dispose pleade defend and
85 bee defended doe permit and execute And that the said Governor
86 and Company of Adventurers of England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay
87 and their successors may have a Common Seale to serve for all the
88 causes and busnesses of them and theire Successors and that itt
89 shall and may bee lawfull to the said Governor and Company and
90 theire Successors the same Seall from tyme to tyme at theire will
91 and pleasure to breake change and to make a new or alter as them
92 shall seeme expedient.
Every corporate charter is premised on this fundamental point. The Dutch East India Company has a similar provision but the English common law tradition uses the word "person" as a legal term in a way that the civil law tradition of the Continent did not, at least uniformly, prior to the Code Napoleon.
And not just because the history of English common law is not absolutely binding on present US common law (though that certainly does not help; while I think we can agree the Hudsons Bay charter refers to, not just a generic company or business, but what we would call a corporation, it does not use that term and, as you are well aware, matters of law require a bit more than a tacit general understanding.) The statement that the Hudsons Bay Company "shall have perpetuall succession" and "that they and theire successores by the name of Governor and Company of Adventurers of England Tradeing into Hudsons Bay bee and at all tymes hereafter shall bee persons able and capable in Law" makes clear the charter speaks of actual physical persons acting as a single group. Otherwise the issue of "successors" and the need to establish "perpetual succession" for its president and complement would be unnecessary; the company would exist, retaining its natural rights, possessions and liabilities, until such time as its charter lapsed or was revoked.
I cannot help thinking that if the concept of corporations as people was as well founded as you say a Supreme Court clerk would not have felt the need two centuries later to insert an assertion corporations are people into the preface of a ruling, or the Chief Justice to write a letter affirming that reflected the full courts view (which is all well and good, but not an official SCOTUS ruling any more than was the commentary on an actual ruling.)
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
An Open Letter to All People with Nothing Better To Do
20/11/2011 10:49:21 AM
- 1748 Views
Huzah! A man chooses and a slave obeys! *NM*
20/11/2011 10:56:42 AM
- 530 Views
Yeah, 'cos YTs comments are all about disobedience, and the OWSers are all about submission.
20/11/2011 12:24:36 PM
- 856 Views
Actually, my comment are about taking responsibility for yourself. *NM*
20/11/2011 05:48:33 PM
- 538 Views
As usual you miss the point completely. *NM*
20/11/2011 08:27:02 PM
- 531 Views
You want people vocally refusing slavery to return to slavery; I got the point.
21/11/2011 11:24:21 PM
- 953 Views
If what I was saying amounted to that than what your arguing for would to...
22/11/2011 06:32:04 AM
- 827 Views
This is also not about you; the response to which you replied here has been edited accordingly.
22/11/2011 08:10:21 AM
- 895 Views
How much violence has there actually been?
20/11/2011 12:35:54 PM
- 885 Views
Re: How much violence has there actually been?
20/11/2011 12:44:00 PM
- 944 Views
Because it's easy.
20/11/2011 12:49:02 PM
- 849 Views
I think it's great that student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy.
20/11/2011 06:27:27 PM
- 763 Views
Asian parents have the right idea
20/11/2011 08:49:39 PM
- 893 Views
because that's not a huge generalization of an entire race...
20/11/2011 09:05:26 PM
- 837 Views
every pakistani, indian, viet, chinese, cambodian person I know (and thats a lot) ....
20/11/2011 09:27:34 PM
- 860 Views
I had a lot of asian peers in class growing up with parents who were not like that
20/11/2011 10:35:45 PM
- 860 Views
I understand that, and agree to a certain extent.
20/11/2011 11:53:30 PM
- 823 Views
To take it a step further
21/11/2011 02:36:49 AM
- 788 Views
Fees are mostly increasing because of tuition increase caps paired with state funding cuts
21/11/2011 01:50:02 PM
- 726 Views
Ultimately, there is only black and white, but they mix freely and liberally in the real world.
21/11/2011 11:38:34 PM
- 750 Views
HUZZAH! Very well said.
20/11/2011 01:20:48 PM
- 775 Views
Our leaders should be held accountable for refusing to lead, and we for accepting that.
22/11/2011 12:09:51 AM
- 757 Views
I think people were jeering OWS for not being "focused" because there are so many damn problems
20/11/2011 04:54:24 PM
- 881 Views
Largely true, in many respects; again, the Tea Party had much the same problem for the same reasons.
22/11/2011 12:26:29 AM
- 925 Views
It is WEIRD when Ron Paul consistently comes off as the least insane GOP candidate
22/11/2011 02:56:33 AM
- 752 Views
Yeah, I recall that link, and still do not entirely agree with it.
22/11/2011 04:16:13 AM
- 668 Views
"There are plenty of jobs and pay"... Do you read the news? *NM*
20/11/2011 12:42:30 PM
- 498 Views
Yep, there are lots of jobs...
20/11/2011 05:49:58 PM
- 876 Views
Re: Yep, there are lots of jobs...
22/11/2011 04:01:35 AM
- 773 Views
I know about a dozen Philosophy Majors off the top of my head, all of whom are gainfully employed.
22/11/2011 11:36:47 AM
- 815 Views
Re:I know about a dozen Philosophy Majors off the top of my head,all of whom are gainfully employed.
24/11/2011 04:30:00 AM
- 976 Views
Excercise in creative thinking...
20/11/2011 06:45:49 PM
- 880 Views
So you think there's no real unemployment problem aside from people being lazy and entitled? *NM*
21/11/2011 03:32:16 AM
- 532 Views
I'm sorry dude, but there ARE jobs.
20/11/2011 07:21:21 PM
- 862 Views
but what kind of jobs?
20/11/2011 08:08:58 PM
- 687 Views
"My plastic surgeon" WTF Aisha
20/11/2011 08:36:13 PM
- 918 Views
Im a nurse
20/11/2011 09:24:14 PM
- 801 Views
You had me worried about the young girl I used to know for a moment. *NM*
21/11/2011 01:01:04 AM
- 492 Views
I actually have a lot of respect for plastic surgeons outside pure cosmetics
21/11/2011 01:02:59 AM
- 867 Views
job that pay money
20/11/2011 08:57:55 PM
- 843 Views
lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take
20/11/2011 09:35:07 PM
- 830 Views
Re: lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take
20/11/2011 10:29:16 PM
- 780 Views
Re: lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take
21/11/2011 12:19:52 AM
- 886 Views
That's a shitty situation
21/11/2011 12:24:20 AM
- 742 Views
First of all, I worked at a dairy and have a friend who busses tables.
20/11/2011 10:32:39 PM
- 802 Views
Actually it is the case in some parts of America. Just not the parts that get mentioned.
22/11/2011 04:05:44 AM
- 788 Views
Doesn't matter when people aren't there, or people don't have the required skills.
20/11/2011 11:51:53 PM
- 769 Views
If you can drive a truck I can get you a job tommorw hauling sand for fracing *NM*
02/09/2012 09:32:39 PM
- 326 Views
...I feel like you've been getting all of your information from TV News. This isn't about bills.
20/11/2011 04:35:13 PM
- 803 Views
Wait...you think there is a problem with courts treating corporations as persons?
20/11/2011 08:33:43 PM
- 767 Views
You know what he meant.
20/11/2011 09:32:59 PM
- 831 Views
You're talking about the Supreme Court case Citizens United v. Federal Elections Commission.
20/11/2011 10:38:43 PM
- 704 Views
Pretty sure the inception of corporations was not 1886.
22/11/2011 05:45:31 AM
- 795 Views
You do realize...
22/11/2011 06:01:47 AM
- 751 Views
Almost anything CAN happen.
22/11/2011 07:43:31 AM
- 792 Views
Actually I think we should be prosecuting these people
22/11/2011 07:46:56 AM
- 762 Views
Well, this is a red letter day; I agree with nearly, perhaps ENTIRELY, all of what you said here.
22/11/2011 07:59:42 AM
- 772 Views
You're right. I will hand you your ass on this one. If you give me gloves before touching it.
23/11/2011 02:26:35 PM
- 797 Views
That looks a little shaky.
23/11/2011 05:42:39 PM
- 823 Views
Funny how once we as a society used protesting for non personal gain ...
20/11/2011 08:49:37 PM
- 880 Views
Good post
20/11/2011 09:13:12 PM
- 829 Views
The UN is clearly out of touch with reality.
20/11/2011 10:44:44 PM
- 825 Views
"There is no right to work"?
22/11/2011 05:50:30 AM
- 815 Views
That would be a legal right relating to unions not a basic human right. *NM*
22/11/2011 05:57:34 AM
- 475 Views
Right; there is a right to work when it suits you, and not when it does not.
22/11/2011 07:16:40 AM
- 719 Views
...do you know what "right-to-work" in those states entails?
22/11/2011 07:55:02 AM
- 859 Views
I would not pretend to be an authority on it, no, but broadly speaking, yes.
22/11/2011 08:12:50 AM
- 867 Views
Also, do you even have a job yet? *NM*
22/11/2011 06:02:11 AM
- 450 Views
Ikke ennĂ¥.
22/11/2011 07:28:27 AM
- 796 Views
So do you think there is no cause whatsoever for protest?
21/11/2011 03:31:04 AM
- 821 Views
I don't think the protest is about being people feeling entitled
22/11/2011 07:45:50 AM
- 902 Views
Re: I don't think the protest is about being people feeling entitled
24/11/2011 03:07:09 AM
- 749 Views