Active Users:1217 Time:23/11/2024 04:38:41 AM
Better question is have you been to any of them? MightyYT Send a noteboard - 20/11/2011 06:42:02 PM
First off, it's 2011. Using the word "hippie" makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about; more to the point, it makes you sound like Cartman.

A lot of what you're saying sounds like it's being parroted from TV news pundits. It's incredibly easy to dismiss an entire subset of the country by calling them rapists and morons. Have you been to any of these protests? They're pretty orderly, up until police start shooting rubber bullets at peaceful protesters. And even if everyone protesting, all of the thousands of people from all walks of life, was a heroin addict that kicked puppies, that wouldn't change what they were protesting.

I have been to three different cities to observe these protests. The question is...have you been to any of them? It is not all that peaceful, especially if you disagree with them. It is really easy to score just about any type of drug you want and the site of people smoking Mary Jane is very common. And by the way, those places smelled worse than New Orleans during Mardi Gras.

You say that there isn't a defined message? That's a complaint from a few months ago. This... isn't actually particularly difficult. The Occupy protests are protesting the level of power corporations have, specifically the level of power they have over the government.

There really isn't. All three places I went all had different messages. About the only thing that was the same is that they don't want to pay their college loans. This coming from the people to whom I spoke.
It may seem "ill-defined" because it's such a pervasive problem.
It seems ill-defined because it is ill-defined. IF the problem was so pervasive, it would be easy to define. They all chant about the 1% and claim to speak for the 99%, Eat the Rich make them pay. But you try to ask about anything specific and the people leading this thing will NOT give you an answer. Listen to the Diane Rehm show on NPR from Nov. 16th (this past week). She keeps trying to ask what their values are and no one answers. The shift aside and one person says that the movement is growing because it is ill-defined.
Massive bailouts.

Incredibly dishonest banking and investment policies, with little to no punishment from the law (If Citibank makes a billion or two in profit from shady deals, millions in fines won't discourage that).

Lobbyists, and corporations donating massive amounts of money to fund "their" candidates re-election.

The courts saying that a corporation is considered a "person."

Is this something you disagree with? Do you think that banks and corporations have no interest in politics, and have not been trying to exert their influence? Or do you know that they do, and don't mind? (These aren't rhetorical questions- I'm honestly interested in your response to these specific questions).

Wow. Just wow. This is some kind of stupid. You think those are messages? Those are not values. This is part of the problem. There is no message there except, "money and government bad." There is no direction to the movement.

There are laws against most of the stuff that happened. But what you have is an administration (most of them in the last 50 years) who keep doing the same things and letting these things slide because it has no backbone and only wants to get re-elected and not hurt the party. You also have the body responsible for making the laws not wanting to rock the boat because they like it like that.

They're not protesting the fact that they have to pay their credit cards. They're not protesting student loan debt. (Student loan debt is an issue that could use some examining/regulation, but it's nowhere near the focus of these protests).

Yes. They are, this is part of the whole occupy movement and one of the few things that are found in the different ones I have been. They are angry that they signed a contract saying "You give me X amount now, and I will pay you X amount for Y amount of time," and don't want to live up to their side of the contract because they think it unfair.
Finally, when thousands of people, all over the world (yes, the world) are protesting something, over an extended period of time, maybe your gut reaction shouldn't be "Oh, they're all just drugged-out losers, morons, and rapists." Historically, when there have been massive, ongoing protests, who ends up being in the right? Is it the people who sit at home, smirking, going "Everything's just fine, those guys are idiots?"

Just because it is widespread, doesn't mean it is legitimate or coherent or correct. The Catholic Church Sex Scandal was widespread. That didn't make it right. Communism was widespread. That didn't make it right either. This "movement" in other countries has been much more violent than it has here.
The Occupy movement doesn't want values. It doesn't what coherency. There is no idea beyond the "let's protest". There are no goals.

PS. Also, a little advice: Maybe you shouldn't tell peaceful protesters that they're not living up to the ideals of America.

I will tell any group with members defecating on The Flag (as I saw this weekend) precisely this.
Castle: This is so weird. I dressed up as him for Halloween.

Beckett: Me too.

~When Castle and Beckett met Gene Simmons.
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An Open Letter to All People with Nothing Better To Do - 20/11/2011 10:49:21 AM 1757 Views
Huzah! A man chooses and a slave obeys! *NM* - 20/11/2011 10:56:42 AM 533 Views
How much violence has there actually been? - 20/11/2011 12:35:54 PM 893 Views
Re: How much violence has there actually been? - 20/11/2011 12:44:00 PM 953 Views
Because it's easy. - 20/11/2011 12:49:02 PM 858 Views
I think it's great that student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy. - 20/11/2011 06:27:27 PM 776 Views
Completely agree. *NM* - 20/11/2011 07:44:10 PM 598 Views
Asian parents have the right idea - 20/11/2011 08:49:39 PM 901 Views
because that's not a huge generalization of an entire race... - 20/11/2011 09:05:26 PM 844 Views
every pakistani, indian, viet, chinese, cambodian person I know (and thats a lot) .... - 20/11/2011 09:27:34 PM 872 Views
I had a lot of asian peers in class growing up with parents who were not like that - 20/11/2011 10:35:45 PM 875 Views
You has? Sorry...it was too good to pass up. *NM* - 20/11/2011 10:40:48 PM 485 Views
lol! oops! *edit* fail. *NM* - 20/11/2011 10:42:33 PM 503 Views
I understand that, and agree to a certain extent. - 20/11/2011 11:53:30 PM 835 Views
Well... - 21/11/2011 05:39:09 AM 806 Views
Hm. Those are all very sensible points. Food for thought. *NM* - 21/11/2011 06:06:24 AM 435 Views
To take it a step further - 21/11/2011 02:36:49 AM 798 Views
I agree 100%. - 21/11/2011 05:41:40 AM 738 Views
they are. - 21/11/2011 06:55:27 PM 781 Views
HUZZAH! Very well said. - 20/11/2011 01:20:48 PM 788 Views
"There are plenty of jobs and pay"... Do you read the news? *NM* - 20/11/2011 12:42:30 PM 502 Views
Yep, there are lots of jobs... - 20/11/2011 05:49:58 PM 889 Views
there ARE plenty of jobs - 20/11/2011 06:14:30 PM 906 Views
Excercise in creative thinking... - 20/11/2011 06:45:49 PM 890 Views
Take an economics course. Learn about structural unemployment. - 20/11/2011 11:50:40 PM 817 Views
*NM* - 21/11/2011 05:13:39 AM 493 Views
I'm sorry dude, but there ARE jobs. - 20/11/2011 07:21:21 PM 871 Views
but what kind of jobs? - 20/11/2011 08:08:58 PM 693 Views
"My plastic surgeon" WTF Aisha - 20/11/2011 08:36:13 PM 930 Views
Im a nurse - 20/11/2011 09:24:14 PM 813 Views
job that pay money - 20/11/2011 08:57:55 PM 854 Views
lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take - 20/11/2011 09:35:07 PM 844 Views
Re: lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take - 20/11/2011 10:29:16 PM 789 Views
Re: lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take - 21/11/2011 12:19:52 AM 898 Views
That's a shitty situation - 21/11/2011 12:24:20 AM 754 Views
While it is true that the plural of anecdote is not data... - 21/11/2011 12:34:35 AM 675 Views
no I realize that - 21/11/2011 12:57:06 AM 653 Views
First of all, I worked at a dairy and have a friend who busses tables. - 20/11/2011 10:32:39 PM 821 Views
Thats a big problem, Aisha - 22/11/2011 06:42:18 AM 761 Views
Not in Michigan. *NM* - 21/11/2011 05:11:40 AM 472 Views
...I feel like you've been getting all of your information from TV News. This isn't about bills. - 20/11/2011 04:35:13 PM 812 Views
Better question is have you been to any of them? - 20/11/2011 06:42:02 PM 933 Views
I may need to be more concise about something - 20/11/2011 06:53:58 PM 858 Views
Re: Better question is have you been to any of them? - 20/11/2011 07:00:30 PM 725 Views
Wait...you think there is a problem with courts treating corporations as persons? - 20/11/2011 08:33:43 PM 777 Views
You know what he meant. - 20/11/2011 09:32:59 PM 840 Views
Pretty sure the inception of corporations was not 1886. - 22/11/2011 05:45:31 AM 805 Views
You do realize... - 22/11/2011 06:01:47 AM 765 Views
Almost anything CAN happen. - 22/11/2011 07:43:31 AM 803 Views
You're right. I will hand you your ass on this one. If you give me gloves before touching it. - 23/11/2011 02:26:35 PM 806 Views
That looks a little shaky. - 23/11/2011 05:42:39 PM 833 Views
Funny how once we as a society used protesting for non personal gain ... - 20/11/2011 08:49:37 PM 884 Views
I love this post. *NM* - 20/11/2011 09:06:49 PM 482 Views
Good post - 20/11/2011 09:13:12 PM 839 Views
Then why don't the unemployed ... - 20/11/2011 10:36:36 PM 749 Views
The UN is clearly out of touch with reality. - 20/11/2011 10:44:44 PM 836 Views
"There is no right to work"? - 22/11/2011 05:50:30 AM 827 Views
Also, do you even have a job yet? *NM* - 22/11/2011 06:02:11 AM 455 Views
Ikke ennĂ¥. - 22/11/2011 07:28:27 AM 809 Views
A simple no would suffice. *NM* - 22/11/2011 07:32:27 AM 518 Views
Well, that was little more than a simple no. - 22/11/2011 07:57:11 AM 734 Views
So do you think there is no cause whatsoever for protest? - 21/11/2011 03:31:04 AM 832 Views
Re: So do you think there is no cause whatsoever for protest? - 22/11/2011 04:15:30 AM 806 Views
I am also not Dan. - 22/11/2011 06:08:06 AM 695 Views
Re: So do you think there is no cause whatsoever for protest? - 22/11/2011 06:47:25 AM 894 Views

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