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I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel Send a noteboard - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM
Christians COMMONLY accepted most, if not all, of the Nicene Creed long before the Council of Nicaea. The Council was prompted by that commonly accepted beliefs growing erosion and muddling due to deliberate Gnostic and heretic assaults and a widespread vagueness and ignorance among NEW Christians only beginning to rigorously explore Christology. Thus the Church formally stated its Christology, clarifying what was indisputably Spirit breathed (e.g. the Gospel of John) and what was simply heresy (e.g. Monophysite denial of Christs humanity, Ebionite denial of His divinity, and Gnostic Trojan horses like the "Gospels" of Thomas and Judas.) The Councils of Nicaea and Ephesus brought order out of chaos by the Grace of God, but the idea Christianity had until then been an eclectic equivalent of Gnosticism that simply replaced "gnosis" with "Jesus" in not credible.

Monophysitism didn't even exist as a theology at the time of the Council of Nicaea, as far as I can tell from a quick look at the articles - it certainly didn't become a major controversy until the sixth century, two centuries after Nicaea. Nor is there any reason why monophysites should be considered to deviate from the Nicene Creed.

As it happens, that actually strengthens your case, though. The Copts, Ethiopian Christians and a few smaller groups have a theology that apparently is technically "miaphysite", but might as well be monophysite; this doesn't prevent them from adhering to the Nicene Creed.

I somewhat blurred the distinction between the Monophysite view of Christ as subsuming a fully human nature in a divine one and the Gnostic view of Christ as a wholly human enlightened/exalted man (which Joseph Smith also echoes in places.) My bad. At the risk of getting into the kind of semantics to which you just alluded, I do not think Monophysitism truly consistent with the Nicene affirmation that Jesus "was incarnate and was made man" or even Pauls biblical metaphor in Hebrews 2 that Jesus "was made a little lower than the angels" (which itself quotes Psalm 8, where the same phrase is explicitly used to indicate humanity.) In other words, while it was not one of the beliefs at which the Nicene Creed was directed, I do think it refuted by that creed.
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This message last edited by Joel on 07/10/2011 at 01:04:08 AM
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wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 551 Views
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In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 581 Views
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Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 594 Views
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Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 636 Views
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You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 703 Views
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OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 614 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 644 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 640 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 611 Views
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you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 599 Views
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Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 637 Views
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Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 602 Views
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I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 870 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 894 Views
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I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 927 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 938 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 954 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 938 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1014 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 901 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 951 Views
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Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 959 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1043 Views
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I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1079 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 978 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1184 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 995 Views
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Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1005 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1029 Views
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A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 966 Views
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OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 898 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 585 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 548 Views
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Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 946 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 893 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 938 Views
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Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 978 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 845 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 910 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 987 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 975 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 860 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1224 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1331 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 914 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 968 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 991 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 881 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 965 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1342 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 868 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 931 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1110 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 513 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 940 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 960 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 903 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 858 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1106 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 948 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 777 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 914 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 647 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1110 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 906 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1065 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 864 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 969 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1091 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 552 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1088 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 911 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1020 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 942 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1057 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 913 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 639 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1018 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 931 Views
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