Active Users:1102 Time:22/11/2024 10:04:55 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien Send a noteboard - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM


If we are baptized in this life, the ordinance is done. If we are not, it can be done for us by proxy.

This is one doctrine that has always seemed so logical to me, I never have quite understood the attention and debate it stirs. Christ came to save all men. What about all the people who have never even heard his name? There are still people today who do not know anything about Christ. They have not been baptized, but it's not because they rejected Christ. Are they just out of luck?

Instead, we believe that they can learn the gospel in the afterlife, and can accept it. We perform their baptism for them, and they can choose to accept it or not. But it means it is their choice, not something beyond their control because of circumstances.



I really like this part of your religion. Not that it would help me, but still. This is good.

But then- shouldn't this be an argument *against* missionaries? What if you fail to convince someone and that person rejects Christ in this life. It seems like you'd be able to be more convincing in the afterlife.


But a person must have a clear chance to accept it. There isn't any clear definition what that means, because it's different for every person. If the missionaries knock, and get a door slammed in their face, it likely doesn't mean the person's chance is up. They didn't know enough to reject it. So if the missionaries "fail to convince someone" like you said, it doesn't necessarily mean they're out of luck.

And though it does seem like it'd be impossible to not believe the gospel if you are actually in the afterlife, it will happen. Doesn't make much sense, but I don't think our mortal minds are that good at comprehending non-mortal existence.

And then, beside all that, living the gospel is the key to true joy. It's the difference of helping people find happiness now, as opposed to up to 100 years later on..



Those are really good answers. Both that telling someone now doesn't necessarily use up their chance, and that you want to tell them now because you want to and because you believe they will be happier and more fulfilled in this life as a result, regardless of the afterlife.



It might be a personal question, but why do you think this? I don't care what you've done. You're never too unworthy to pray to God. You can always be forgiven if you are sincere in asking. Please don't think you are beyond help.



Oh Gosh it's not about what I've done and my worth. It's almost funny, that's almost exactly backwards. I was christian for a fairly decent period of time and I made a choice to turn away from Christ, as you'd say it. Not a decision made lightly or suddenly.

My behavior didn't change, it's not like a story from a teen bible study group where the lapsed christian uses drugs and risky behavior to fill the void in his/her soul. Couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, I've never ever tried any recreational drugs. I have drank alcohol but not much and not very often. I almost never drank in high school and rarely in college and now I'm probably in the heyday of my drinking days but realistically I have alcohol an average of once a month.

Hahaha, I just googled what else mormons don't allow and guess what- I would have no problem with a coffee ban because I don't drink it anyway. I'm also not gay so I'd have no problem with not being gay. I have had premarital sex but I mean, I'm 25- if I hadn't at this point it would certainly be my new year's resolution to fix that. Oh! Also- I almost never curse and I don't like it when I'm around people that do. If I feel comfortable and I want to spend more time with someone who curses a lot I'll ask him or her to try to curse less. [And I dislike it for many reasons- for one thing people don't realize you're angry or upset unless you curse but that's a whole other topic]

Not that I think any of the above define a person's "worth"! I've only addressed those points because that's what came up with google. The point is, it's not about anything I've done that makes me unworthy or scared. The point is I simply don't believe. I just cannot be sincere in praying to God or asking for forgiveness/help. If it's real- if there is an all powerful God out there- I don't love him with any part of my heart.

Numerous edits because I tried to fix the quote thing and then I thought of the cursing thing.
This message last edited by Vivien on 06/10/2011 at 09:12:07 PM
Reply to message
Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2361 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1114 Views
Ooh! Ooh! Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:18:38 AM 965 Views
I don't watch it. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:34:53 AM 970 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM 1075 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 901 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk. aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM 1013 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM* beetnemesis - 03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM 627 Views
Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 901 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 553 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 601 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 573 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 956 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 1956 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 922 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 546 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1022 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 564 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 574 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1006 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 965 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 919 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 948 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 881 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 920 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 467 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 694 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 584 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 588 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 524 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 618 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 474 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 797 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 688 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 632 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 663 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 696 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 598 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 735 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 562 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 583 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 609 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 640 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 638 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 604 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 649 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 596 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 707 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 605 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 634 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 534 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 524 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 548 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 560 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 598 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 621 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 714 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 634 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 620 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 576 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1103 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 995 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 973 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 941 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 858 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 879 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 960 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 914 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 923 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 941 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 926 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1000 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 887 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 937 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1046 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 946 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1028 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1187 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1061 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 963 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1167 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 981 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 897 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 989 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1012 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 896 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 979 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 984 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 961 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 954 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 524 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 881 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 579 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 541 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 763 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 915 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 930 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 878 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 925 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 939 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 964 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 829 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 898 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 972 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 957 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 844 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1210 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1319 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 895 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 956 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 972 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 869 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 952 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1328 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 852 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 916 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1098 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 510 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 928 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 946 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 890 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 841 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1091 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 936 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 766 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 904 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 642 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1095 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 892 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1050 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 851 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 955 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1081 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 547 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1079 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 897 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1005 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 925 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1043 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 901 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 634 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1002 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 916 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes