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Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel Send a noteboard - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM
I choose to be generous and interpret your subject line to mean "devout Mormons are perfectly sane" rather than a return to "all religious people are nuts." Turn the other cheek, and all that stuff. ;)


Why not interpret is as I said it- the mormon faith is not much crazier than the other mainstream religions. If you say that mainstream christianity is sane, then you don't have much to stand trying to call the mormon faith nuts. You can just as easily interpret that as "devout mormons as perfectly sane" or as "all religious people are nuts". Except that I'm not making statements about people, but about organized religions.


I am not yelling at the Mormons at all. It should be clear that I'm not picking on them specifically.

Either Mormon theology is perfectly rational or all theology is irrational; there is no middle ground. I strongly disagree with that position, whether it reflects a condescending tolerance of Mormonism along with all other religious (and thus crazy, by definition) beliefs or an illogical and untenable assertion that Mormonism is rational despite its multiple, fundamental and serious internal inconsistencies.

We are not talking about a belief system that says implausible or fantastic things, not even one that says black is white, but one that says black is white AND BLACK. Calling that rational is simply incorrect; calling it legitimate because we accept all other religions despite them being equally irrational is incorrect and insulting.
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Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2375 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1125 Views
Ooh! Ooh! Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:18:38 AM 981 Views
I don't watch it. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:34:53 AM 985 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM 1088 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 911 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk. aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM 1022 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM* beetnemesis - 03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM 632 Views
Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 911 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 557 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 608 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 578 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 969 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 1966 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 936 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 552 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1034 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 568 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 582 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1021 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 976 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 932 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 955 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 894 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 934 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 474 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 698 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 590 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 595 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 528 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 624 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 478 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 803 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 694 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 637 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 668 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 704 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 602 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 738 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 565 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 587 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 615 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 644 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 641 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 611 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 655 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 599 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 713 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 609 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 638 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 541 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 530 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 555 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 565 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 603 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 628 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 721 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 638 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 625 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 583 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1116 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1009 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 986 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 956 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 870 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 894 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 973 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 927 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 938 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 954 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 939 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1014 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 901 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 951 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1058 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 959 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1044 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1207 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1079 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 978 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1184 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 996 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 908 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1005 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1029 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 913 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 992 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 999 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 975 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 966 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 531 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 898 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 586 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 549 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 775 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 932 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 947 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 894 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 939 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 951 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 979 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 845 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 911 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 988 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 975 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 860 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1224 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1331 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 914 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 968 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 991 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 881 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 966 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1343 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 868 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 932 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1110 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 513 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 940 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 960 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 904 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 859 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1107 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 949 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 778 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 915 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 648 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1111 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 906 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1065 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 864 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 969 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1092 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 553 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1088 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 911 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1020 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 942 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1058 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 914 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 639 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1018 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 931 Views
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