Active Users:369 Time:26/06/2024 08:21:27 PM
Tom can probably give you actual terms and correct rules, but here's my take on it. Nate Send a noteboard - 05/10/2011 08:43:47 PM
Since I noticed you both (in effect) cited the same objection: Subject/verb agreement. I (perhaps incorrectly) took "Twitter and texting" to be examples of a single general phenomenon suspected to have "eroded proper grammar for today's youths" and so thought nothing of introducing the question with "has." My logic is expounded at better length <a href="http://grammar.about.com/od/c/g/comsubjecterm.htm">here</a>, in an About.com entry written by one Richard Norquist, whose bio there states him to be a Doctor of English with 35 years experience teaching composition:
Normally a subject made up of more than one element takes a plural verb ("The President and Congress are at loggerheads"), although occasionally, when the elements add up to the same idea, the verb is singular ("The wear and tear on the car was tremendous"). But focus an eye on these compound subjects followed by singular verbs, all of which are correct:

Everything in the cupboard and everything on the table was smashed.
Everybody favoring the plan and everybody leaning toward it was interviewed.
Nobody in my house and nobody on my street has been robbed.
Anyone who has read the book and anybody who has even heard of its ideas agrees with the author.


Strange, eh? . . . The explanation would seem to be that in each instance the second 'particularizer' is superfluous and has no grammatical efect; it could just as well be omitted, and in some of the instances the and would change to or. . . .

"An odd quirk that proves nothing aside from the fact that some rules do have exceptions."
(Theodore Bernstein, Miss Thistlebottom's Hobgoblins, 1971)

Bolding is mine, for emphasis (and yes, I noticed that he mispelled "effect." Several of the examples here, the first especially, are similar to the language in question eight: "Everything on the table" and "everything in the cupboard" are clearly and wholly distinct groups, but a singular verb is used to reference the singular destruction of both groups.


In the examples used in the quoted piece, you are talking about two distinct groups, but the key is that they both begin with the same qualifier, the same key to the subject -- everything on the table and everything in the cupboard. They are expanded into two groups, but they are part of the same root -- everything. It could just as easily be stated as "everything on the table and in the cupboard was smashed." The verb, "was", depends on the true subject, which is "everything", which is singular. In that case, "everything" has been expanded into two sub-groups, but they are still part of the same singular subject. It is the same with the other examples he used.

In the case of "wear and tear", that has come to be regarded as singular simply because they are always used together, they are partners in crime, they form a singular idea, as he noted. "Twitter and texting" are not at that point where they would generally be accepted by society as representing a singular idea, regardless of whether or not DK meant them as a singular idea.

That's my take, anywho.
Warder to starry_nite

Chapterfish — Nate's Writing Blog
http://chapterfish.wordpress.com
Reply to message
Grammar junkies - 05/10/2011 06:46:31 PM 1002 Views
I'm not always sure that I'm correct, but.... - 05/10/2011 07:04:13 PM 694 Views
I didn't see any errors - 05/10/2011 07:24:27 PM 674 Views
Re: I didn't see any errors - 06/10/2011 03:14:07 PM 551 Views
You mean ... - 06/10/2011 03:58:32 PM 602 Views
Must ... have ... grammar. - 05/10/2011 07:53:34 PM 861 Views
For you and Tom as well, the same question about question eight. - 05/10/2011 08:33:39 PM 1077 Views
Tom can probably give you actual terms and correct rules, but here's my take on it. - 05/10/2011 08:43:47 PM 634 Views
That makes sense as far as it goes. - 05/10/2011 09:02:42 PM 664 Views
But do you actually regard them that way? - 05/10/2011 09:08:36 PM 655 Views
Yeah, pretty much. - 05/10/2011 09:25:18 PM 612 Views
Re: Yeah, pretty much. - 05/10/2011 09:29:33 PM 489 Views
OK then. - 05/10/2011 09:59:50 PM 651 Views
You bring up a point that I was researching the other day - 05/10/2011 08:53:40 PM 711 Views
You guys mean a hyphen, not a dash. - 05/10/2011 09:00:25 PM 653 Views
You're right of course! - 05/10/2011 09:13:44 PM 724 Views
I frequently am. - 05/10/2011 09:16:38 PM 729 Views
So I've noticed. - 05/10/2011 09:19:38 PM 647 Views
I like telling people, too. - 05/10/2011 09:34:50 PM 635 Views
You can use charmap. - 05/10/2011 10:21:32 PM 682 Views
Re: You guys mean a hyphen, not a dash. - 06/10/2011 01:15:02 PM 602 Views
Mmm, dashing. - 05/10/2011 09:02:53 PM 640 Views
Emdashing is an entirely different form of punctuation. - 05/10/2011 09:07:36 PM 691 Views
Achtung! Grammatik! :insert Nazi-saluting smiley as the Wehrmacht marches by: - 05/10/2011 08:10:45 PM 753 Views
I love this bit. - 05/10/2011 08:26:52 PM 758 Views
Bring back the BSG! - 05/10/2011 08:55:32 PM 673 Views
Re: your 2nd irritating error for question 2 - 06/10/2011 04:12:49 PM 622 Views
Good poll, especially for this site. - 05/10/2011 08:11:10 PM 743 Views
Re: serial comma. - 05/10/2011 08:31:58 PM 640 Views
Maybe I was being a little anal there. - 05/10/2011 08:35:33 PM 601 Views
Same here - 05/10/2011 08:43:34 PM 537 Views
I think it's conventional to use a comma before "etc". - 05/10/2011 08:55:11 PM 615 Views
Re: Grammar junkies - 05/10/2011 08:33:06 PM 652 Views
Re: Grammar junkies - 05/10/2011 08:49:43 PM 705 Views
People should talk in a way that can be understood, else they are not communicating. - 05/10/2011 09:17:37 PM 693 Views
Re: "everyone's". ~winky~ *NM* - 05/10/2011 09:22:18 PM 329 Views
Is it time for my lecture on superfluous apostrophes again? - 05/10/2011 09:43:47 PM 608 Views
You mean your lecture on "superfluous" apostrophes. - 05/10/2011 09:53:31 PM 561 Views
As have I. Multiple times. *NM* - 05/10/2011 09:55:08 PM 295 Views
I am not stubborn, just true to my convictions. - 05/10/2011 09:56:39 PM 815 Views
Unsurprisingly, I don't really agree with you at all on this point. :p - 05/10/2011 10:29:59 PM 675 Views
I do not really think I am "right" on this one so much as "not wrong." - 06/10/2011 12:01:36 AM 589 Views
But contradictions are inherent in the entire English language! - 06/10/2011 01:25:39 AM 608 Views
Sure, but not deliberate ones created by grammarians who know better. - 06/10/2011 05:40:58 AM 609 Views
I'm going to listen to the others. - 06/10/2011 06:17:18 AM 634 Views
Like I say, I appreciate exceptions when justified (and again, only claiming to be "not wrong." ) - 06/10/2011 07:26:18 AM 529 Views
But you are wrong - 06/10/2011 02:17:40 PM 661 Views
that is OK he is very good at being wrong *NM* - 06/10/2011 03:43:23 PM 353 Views
I disagree. - 07/10/2011 12:15:14 AM 608 Views
How utterly unsurprising - 07/10/2011 02:21:38 PM 555 Views
"We want to be nothing if not persistent." - 07/10/2011 02:39:19 PM 601 Views
Doesn't matter. - 07/10/2011 03:12:14 PM 649 Views
What. - 06/10/2011 06:17:41 PM 703 Views
You called? - 05/10/2011 08:53:54 PM 660 Views
Grammar schmammar! - 05/10/2011 09:01:47 PM 738 Views
Wongy tip #77 - 05/10/2011 11:15:12 PM 600 Views
#1) I do not use NetSpeak while playing games, texting or using social media. - 05/10/2011 11:34:12 PM 606 Views
What about NateSpeak? *NM* - 06/10/2011 04:01:08 PM 307 Views
I did use that once to tell the story of you and CNRedDragon going to see Ice Princess. *NM* - 07/10/2011 01:46:50 AM 307 Views
A timeless classic. - 07/10/2011 01:53:36 AM 576 Views
Re: Grammar junkies - 06/10/2011 01:17:28 AM 629 Views
Yes. - 06/10/2011 06:53:46 AM 562 Views
I forgot about "of" for "have." - 06/10/2011 07:31:11 AM 600 Views
I try - 06/10/2011 09:18:29 AM 655 Views
I freebase split infinitives on a regular basis. - 06/10/2011 01:53:36 PM 533 Views
The split infinitive is not grammatically incorrect. - 06/10/2011 02:04:34 PM 558 Views
I wish more people knew this. - 06/10/2011 07:38:46 PM 550 Views
Junky Grammar. - 06/10/2011 04:24:01 PM 544 Views

Reply to Message