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Unreasonable doubt is impossible to eliminate. Joel Send a noteboard - 22/09/2011 09:54:43 PM
.....but I would use the standard of "no doubt" instead of "beyond a reasonable doubt". This means.....DNA, physical evidence, getting caught in the act, video, multiple independent eye-witnesses, etc.

That is why we word the verdict that way. Maybe I am just a coma victim in a hospital some place imagining the whole trial and events leading up to it, in which case the imaginary defendant is not guilty of any crimes against an imaginary victim. Maybe I am a mentally challenged jelly fish creature on a distant planet mistaking an entertainment program for reality. Those are irrefutable doubts, but far from reasonable ones, and should therefore not prevent anyones conviction. David Icke thinks extradimensional lizard people run the world, but his doubt of world leaders very humanity is unreasonable, and so not generally taken seriously.
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This message last edited by Joel on 22/09/2011 at 10:05:25 PM
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i'm proud to live in a country where you can be executed based on circumstantial evidence... moondog - 22/09/2011 04:06:07 PM 1388 Views
Yeah it's pretty damn disgusting and frustrating... ironclad - 22/09/2011 04:08:05 PM 697 Views
Well nossy - 22/09/2011 06:57:37 PM 739 Views
And yet the Supreme Court didn't stop it. You're a lawyer right? Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:19:05 PM 760 Views
Well, that right there was an ignorant thing to say. Dannymac - 22/09/2011 04:32:49 PM 816 Views
But they get all the media attention Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:45:03 PM 707 Views
Er. Nate - 22/09/2011 05:09:44 PM 709 Views
What about the t-shirts? *NM* Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 05:47:49 PM 292 Views
Heh... you should perhaps Google 'The West Memphis 3' Jacob - 22/09/2011 05:29:06 PM 781 Views
Cameron Todd Willingham is white, and his story is a national one since Perry is running for Pres Roland00 - 23/09/2011 03:41:52 PM 599 Views
those numbers are less schocking when you consider that blacks commet a lot more murders *NM* random thoughts - 22/09/2011 05:43:51 PM 311 Views
And this is a typically illogical argument. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:11:48 PM 743 Views
You're kidding, right? Dannymac - 23/09/2011 02:55:44 PM 691 Views
Re: You're kidding, right? ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 07:36:38 PM 706 Views
Juror bias. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/09/2011 08:35:10 PM 276 Views
the jury was majority black *NM* random thoughts - 23/09/2011 09:03:48 PM 293 Views
In this instance, yes. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/09/2011 09:30:10 PM 250 Views
Your evidence for that? *NM* ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 11:33:58 PM 286 Views
Twenty-one years of life in the American South. Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 12:40:10 AM 666 Views
Of course I'm interested ßelals Girl - 24/09/2011 04:03:51 AM 597 Views
From me being too involved with the subject material. I apologize. Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 11:16:06 AM 579 Views
No worries ßelals Girl - 24/09/2011 07:10:40 PM 556 Views
While I largely agree with your argument, I agree more with Cannoli on the NAACP. Joel - 23/09/2011 07:46:06 PM 643 Views
Wow ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 07:50:06 PM 547 Views
It happens. Joel - 25/09/2011 03:09:00 PM 605 Views
yes the "you born white what more do you want" argument *NM* random thoughts - 23/09/2011 09:03:04 PM 278 Views
From what I've read it is pretty disturbing snoopcester - 22/09/2011 04:27:44 PM 776 Views
Huh. Nate - 22/09/2011 04:47:20 PM 774 Views
That jumped out at me too. Sareitha Sedai - 22/09/2011 04:50:52 PM 692 Views
What really confuses me Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:58:32 PM 650 Views
That's a good question and I really wish it would be addressed. Sareitha Sedai - 22/09/2011 05:05:40 PM 735 Views
Re: That's a good question and I really wish it would be addressed. Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:21:59 PM 787 Views
If the original trial is shown to be flawed that's supposed to require a new trial. Joel - 22/09/2011 08:25:51 PM 628 Views
Well... Jacob - 22/09/2011 05:18:54 PM 802 Views
So if I understand you correctly... LadyLorraine - 22/09/2011 05:23:00 PM 740 Views
Yes, that is correct. And proving witness coercion is likely to be difficult if not impossible. *NM* Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:30:37 PM 251 Views
almost random thoughts - 22/09/2011 08:25:06 PM 633 Views
Re: Well... Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:29:03 PM 696 Views
I know one reason is that MightyYT - 22/09/2011 08:27:41 PM 703 Views
it is only confusing because the evidence isn't really that shaky random thoughts - 22/09/2011 08:54:21 PM 675 Views
you are innocent until proven guilty random thoughts - 22/09/2011 05:34:57 PM 717 Views
You must change your perspective..... Jeordam - 22/09/2011 07:33:20 PM 702 Views
Well said *NM* Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 08:49:56 PM 306 Views
If I understand the Supreme Court correctly, the reason they denied the stay of execution was MightyYT - 22/09/2011 08:25:14 PM 725 Views
On its face, that is a good reason. Joel - 22/09/2011 10:07:44 PM 749 Views
I completely support the Death Penalty without question..... trzaska2000 - 22/09/2011 08:27:54 PM 629 Views
Unreasonable doubt is impossible to eliminate. Joel - 22/09/2011 09:54:43 PM 707 Views
Doubt can be eliminated.....any question about Dalmer? trzaska2000 - 23/09/2011 01:00:52 PM 682 Views
Maybe he was framed by an enemy, government conspiracy or aliens. Joel - 23/09/2011 01:54:21 PM 649 Views
Jigga what? *NM* trzaska2000 - 23/09/2011 03:36:07 PM 314 Views
"I do not know if I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly or am now a butterfly..." Joel - 23/09/2011 06:50:34 PM 628 Views
Circumstantial evidence is not, I believe, a bar to conviction. Joel - 22/09/2011 09:43:56 PM 593 Views
Regarding the salvation thing, that is an argument FOR the death penalty, in my mind. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:37:16 PM 658 Views
That motive is seflish and thus fatal. Joel - 23/09/2011 01:17:00 AM 611 Views
Bullshit Cannoli - 25/09/2011 03:53:05 AM 838 Views
Where do YOU get the idea that imperfect contrition is good enough? Joel - 25/09/2011 02:29:18 PM 1112 Views
Thank God you're not an evangelist. Dannymac - 23/09/2011 02:59:06 PM 629 Views
And I pity the souls you have ministered to. They're in for a rude shock at their judgement Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:01:05 AM 659 Views
lol roman catholicism *NM* Ghavrel - 25/09/2011 04:39:55 AM 262 Views
Not just Roman Catholics, y'know, everyone who thinks God was not BSing about judgement. Joel - 25/09/2011 09:47:12 PM 694 Views
lol hellfire and brimstone *NM* Ghavrel - 26/09/2011 12:12:28 AM 256 Views
I suppose in a consequences free world everything is a source of amusement. Joel - 26/09/2011 12:33:14 AM 821 Views
You really don't understand irony, do you? Particularly as it applies to your post about this case. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:26:49 PM 723 Views
. Two Wongs - 23/09/2011 08:21:38 AM 664 Views
A list of anecdotal wrongs does not prove anything. If convictions can be wrong, so can exonerations *NM* Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:03:26 AM 261 Views
Yes; it's the uncertainties that count. Either way. Two Wongs - 25/09/2011 04:15:48 AM 490 Views
sorry if i don't have time to link to every thing i've read on the subject moondog - 23/09/2011 02:54:50 PM 786 Views
Well I would think you would have picked an article that offers some iota of proof of his innocence. Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:14:45 AM 713 Views
I kind of agree. Vivien - 24/09/2011 12:05:27 AM 676 Views
Well, I wouldn't call eyewitness accounts circumstancial evidence. Vivien - 23/09/2011 11:45:48 PM 648 Views
Eyewitness testimony is incredibly unreliable. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 12:39:51 AM 257 Views
Nor would I, but I've heard that lawyers say, "an eye witness is the worst witness you can have." Joel - 25/09/2011 03:23:53 PM 674 Views
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