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The Lynndie England case is debatable. Joel Send a noteboard - 22/09/2011 07:28:53 PM
Karpinski, the commander at Abu Ghraib, expressed in correspondence with her superiors her serious concerns that DoD policy and the orders she received as a result of that policy were in violation of the Geneva Convention. Her concerns were dismissed and she confronted the all too familiar dilemma of disobeying her orders at the risk of a court martial or following them at the same risk; the rest, as they say, is history.
If she had been following her orders she would have been OK. As for free fire zones is that from the same hearing where Kerry talked about his Christmas in Cambodia?

That is from the US Army Field Manual, though it has come up at Congressional hearings, for obvious reasons. Part of supporting the troops means not demanding they violate their own military as well as international law, even when they object on those grounds, then leaving them to twist in the wind and/or scapegoating them when it becomes public knowledge. "Following orders" is never an excuse for war crimes, but the complicity of those who follow orders to commit atrocities does not exonerate commanders who give those orders, nor civilian politicians who establish them as systemic policy. That is like executing a mob hit man for murder while ignoring the capo who hired him and dozens of others to repeatedly and routinely commit murder.

Politicians can no more be trusted with unaccountable military authority than with unaccountable taxing authority; that is probably Vietnams chief lesson.
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USMC first to fight - 21/09/2011 03:36:17 PM 960 Views
Good for them. - 21/09/2011 03:41:43 PM 723 Views
That is the optimal word for it. - 23/09/2011 01:14:18 AM 673 Views
In my imagination it went down something like this: - 21/09/2011 04:22:08 PM 562 Views
Something went wrong here... - 21/09/2011 04:23:04 PM 477 Views
There could be some truth to that - 21/09/2011 04:34:36 PM 551 Views
They need military chaplains, right? *NM* - 21/09/2011 04:36:06 PM 213 Views
not in the marines - 21/09/2011 04:45:48 PM 482 Views
I had a friend who was a Navy chaplain attached to the Marine Corps. - 21/09/2011 07:23:10 PM 553 Views
also - 21/09/2011 04:51:15 PM 478 Views
That actually sounds about right. - 21/09/2011 08:17:02 PM 533 Views
Very interesting, but encouraging. - 21/09/2011 08:28:38 PM 591 Views
The answer on women in combat: - 21/09/2011 10:07:04 PM 642 Views
I still worry about how the men will react. - 22/09/2011 02:33:15 AM 655 Views
Well, you can worry about what might happen. - 22/09/2011 09:17:02 AM 464 Views
and how much actual combat have these units seen? - 22/09/2011 02:40:50 PM 570 Views
Sweden has not been involved in many hot conflicts during those years, no - 22/09/2011 05:04:26 PM 571 Views
The other branches could benefit in a lot of ways by trying to emulate the Marines - 22/09/2011 03:25:16 PM 583 Views
Probably. - 22/09/2011 04:33:49 PM 534 Views
The Lynndie England case makes my point - 22/09/2011 06:16:32 PM 560 Views
The Lynndie England case is debatable. - 22/09/2011 07:28:53 PM 653 Views
sorry not interested in arguing rhetoric *NM* - 22/09/2011 09:01:04 PM 188 Views
The US Army Field Manual is policy, not rhetoric. - 22/09/2011 09:44:58 PM 476 Views
no Joel the rheotoric is all you - 22/09/2011 10:45:29 PM 446 Views
I thought there was a reason I loved The USMC. *NM* - 21/09/2011 08:39:50 PM 221 Views
Good story. - 21/09/2011 10:01:33 PM 480 Views
This kind of reminds me of Full Metal Jacket... - 21/09/2011 10:49:57 PM 515 Views
Re: This kind of reminds me of Full Metal Jacket... - 21/09/2011 11:14:38 PM 544 Views

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