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That makes sense. Joel Send a noteboard - 22/08/2011 03:49:18 PM

One of these days I've got to get her to pop back in here and tell ya'll these things herself, but she's never been much of a poster, mainly a chatter. But yeah, with the possible exceptions of France and Germany (can't say first hand, but I've heard tales the French have something of a nervous tic about speaking English

) I agree that they underestimated how ubiquitous English is in Western Europe. It's actually a barrier to learning Norwegian, in some ways; not only is it far easier for me to communicate in English with almost everyone I meet, it's usually much easier for THEM than listening to me mangle my way through a grasp of their language most natives surpass by the time they start school. Most of the television here is American or British programs (programmes in the latter case, I suppose

), often on American cable channels or the local versions thereof. Turn on a television here and you're as likely to say an English show with Norwegian subtitles as one in Norwegian; is that "lots" or "somewhat"?

There's a few more exceptions than that, I think; the division is essentially between small countries (or small language areas, rather) and big countries. Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Flanders and to a somewhat lesser extent Portugal all encounter huge amounts of English. Switzerland and Luxembourg are special cases because they've both got so many languages that are important that English is merely one among several, and not necessarily the most important. When the average person watches, what is it, three hours of television a day?, and a very significant portion of the movies/programmes shown in *all* European countries is American or British, the factor of whether or those movies/programmes are dubbed or subtitled becomes rather important for the level of English spoken in a country.

It's probably down to demographics more than anything. I didn't even know Luxembourg HAD its own language, and remember my German teacher mentioning something called "Switzerdeutsch" that (IIRC) is some sort of composite of French and German. If you can guarantee an audience of 50 million plus, the media will naturally pursue that market any way they can, but they have less incentive to chase, say, 10 million Belgians IN Belgian, particularly when they can reach practically that entire audience with French, German and/or English programming anyway.

And I had expected no less, re: your experience of being hampered in trying to learn Norwegian. It's much the same way with people trying to learn Dutch. Speaking English is easier and more efficient for everyone involved; the only reason to speak Norwegian would be to help you practice, so people really have to force themselves to think of that every time - or you have to keep asking them. Professional language teachers or those with experience in related issues will have that reflex of sticking with Norwegian, most other people won't.

I'll simply have to redouble my efforts; in the common months my most commonly used phrase will probably be "Kan du snakker langsommere, vær så snill?" *sigh* I guess I'll stick with English for official business where full comprehension is important (e.g. visas

) and try to make myself use Norwegian the rest of the time.

Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.

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Help out these researchers: test your English vocabulary Rebekah - 21/08/2011 03:07:24 PM 676 Views

When I first read that I thought you meant "nitty-gritty" was one of the words they checked.

Joel - 21/08/2011 03:26:28 PM 415 Views

Perhpas I misunderstood the instructions, because it told me my vocabulary is 1680 words. *NM* Palatine - 21/08/2011 04:03:19 PM 158 Views

I tried to be very conservative Tom - 21/08/2011 04:55:08 PM 462 Views

That was my thought as well Larry - 21/08/2011 06:24:06 PM 492 Views

Indeed. If you read their explanation, however, there's a decent reason for that. Rebekah - 21/08/2011 06:27:34 PM 432 Views

I did read it Larry - 21/08/2011 06:32:28 PM 361 Views

28,300 words. Great Lord of Chaos - 21/08/2011 05:52:10 PM 409 Views

Hmm Camilla - 21/08/2011 06:07:36 PM 443 Views

I got 35700, but I was perhaps too generous in ticking boxes. Legolas - 21/08/2011 07:49:24 PM 513 Views

The wife had the same reaction to "lots", "somewhat" and "not much". Joel - 21/08/2011 10:15:05 PM 484 Views

Yeah, she would. Legolas - 21/08/2011 10:54:20 PM 422 Views

That makes sense. Joel - 22/08/2011 03:49:18 PM 472 Views

I'm going to hope I misinterpreted that, but... Legolas - 22/08/2011 07:24:04 PM 394 Views

Nah, you got it, and I didn't.

Joel - 22/08/2011 08:27:33 PM 454 Views

37700 *NM* Stephen - 21/08/2011 08:52:29 PM 162 Views

Bah, 35,000 *NM* beetnemesis - 21/08/2011 10:02:43 PM 184 Views

I'm only slightly above average nossy - 22/08/2011 04:07:02 AM 390 Views

39,000. It seemed pretty heavy on the Latin derivations. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/08/2011 04:48:23 AM 188 Views

28,800 Macharius - 22/08/2011 01:43:36 PM 382 Views

Neat link, It seems I'm around 25600. Made me want to get my dictinary out... *NM* Nolan - 22/08/2011 03:43:24 PM 202 Views

Trollop! Trollop was on the list!

Low- 22,800. *NM* Avendesora - 22/08/2011 08:43:21 PM 171 Views

I like the rice one from years ago. Still, I so kicked ass that I won't post... Vodalus - 23/08/2011 04:57:58 AM 395 Views

37000... It's interesting how it makes you remember how you know some of the harder words Isaac - 23/08/2011 12:16:17 PM 381 Views

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<quote id="222209">
<quote id="222152"><quote id="222147">One of these days I've got to get her to pop back in here and tell ya'll these things herself, but she's never been much of a poster, mainly a chatter.  But yeah, with the possible exceptions of France and Germany (can't say first hand, but I've heard tales the French have something of a nervous tic about speaking English ;)) I agree that they underestimated how ubiquitous English is in Western Europe.  It's actually a barrier to learning Norwegian, in some ways; not only is it far easier for me to communicate in English with almost everyone I meet, it's usually much easier for THEM than listening to me mangle my way through a grasp of their language most natives surpass by the time they start school.  Most of the television here is American or British programs (programmes in the latter case, I suppose :rolleyes: ), often on American cable channels or the local versions thereof.  Turn on a television here and you're as likely to say an English show with Norwegian subtitles as one in Norwegian; is that "lots" or "somewhat"? :P  </quote>
There's a few more exceptions than that, I think; the division is essentially between small countries (or small language areas, rather) and big countries. Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Flanders and to a somewhat lesser extent Portugal all encounter huge amounts of English. Switzerland and Luxembourg are special cases because they've both got so many languages that are important that English is merely one among several, and not necessarily the most important. When the average person watches, what is it, three hours of television a day?, and a very significant portion of the movies/programmes shown in *all* European countries is American or British, the factor of whether or those movies/programmes are dubbed or subtitled becomes rather important for the level of English spoken in a country.</quote>
It's probably down to demographics more than anything.  I didn't even know Luxembourg HAD its own language, and remember my German teacher mentioning something called "Switzerdeutsch" that (IIRC) is some sort of composite of French and German.  If you can guarantee an audience of 50 million plus, the media will naturally pursue that market any way they can, but they have less incentive to chase, say, 10 million Belgians IN Belgian, particularly when they can reach practically that entire audience with French, German and/or English programming anyway.
<quote id="222152">And I had expected no less, re: your experience of being hampered in trying to learn Norwegian. It's much the same way with people trying to learn Dutch. Speaking English is easier and more efficient for everyone involved; the only reason to speak Norwegian would be to help you practice, so people really have to force themselves to think of that every time - or you have to keep asking them. Professional language teachers or those with experience in related issues will have that reflex of sticking with Norwegian, most other people won't. </quote>
I'll simply have to redouble my efforts; in the common months my most commonly used phrase will probably be "Kan du snakker langsommere, vær så snill?" *sigh* I guess I'll stick with English for official business where full comprehension is important (e.g. visas :P) and try to make myself use Norwegian the rest of the time.
</quote>

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