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I called for a number of people to be put in padded rooms. Joel Send a noteboard - 16/08/2011 08:33:38 PM
You called for people on this site to be put in padded rooms and straightjackets Joel, and that was way out of line, and I got to tell you, most of us find references to be locked up just as bad or worse than implied violence. As to that, do you really think there's a smattering of difference between saying "Don't retreat, reload" and "Stand our ground"? Were you under the impression 'stand our ground' is not a military reference? or 'lead the charge', people use military and aggressive sport references all the time. Did you know that 'beat' as in 'we'll beat them this november' is from Middle English beten, from Old English bēatan (“to beat, pound, strike, lash, dash, thrust, hurt, injure”. Terms and phrases you don't happen to use much personally do not deserve special condemnation, I guess it makes you not a hypocrite in that respect, just ignorant of our language. Lot's of people in the US use gun-speak, that's just part of our culture because we don't have a lot pre-gun culture. An awful lot of us come from military or hunting backgrounds, where 'lock and load' means nothing more than 'belt up' or 'let's get ready to rumble' or simply "It's time". "Threw him under the bus" is an outright statement of committing premeditated murder to save your own skin. 'Defeat's origin is as use for destruction or ruination, these terms are all used casually and regularly in our culture and so are things like 'reload'.

Now there's a difference between inciting violence, using violent terms, and using inflammatory rhetoric, you can certainly do all three at once, but you're complaining mostly about that middle one when it would seem the least of three evils.

And part of the reason why is that I wanted to be clear I wasn't saying something like "kill them before they kill us111". Despite the fact that I was and am genuinely afraid of being murdered for my politics; when dozens of kids are murdered for the same politics just down the road from you it tends to have that effect. It was the worst shooting massacre in the history of the world, so don't tell me "your side does it, too" because that wouldn't justify it even if it were true, but it's NOT true and we both know it.

As to the rhetoric itself, it's VERY hard to avoid ANY language that CAN have a violent meaning; I know, because I habitually make that effort for that reason. Equating "beat them" with "don't retreat, reload" seems a bit of a stretch to me, particularly from parties who habitually invoke martial imagery (sometimes comically, as in the case of the Paul Revere reference). "Agressive sports references" are perfectly fine; explicitly violent military imagery is not, because it suggests not just confrontation or high emotion, but actual violence. "Beat" and "defeat" can and do have non-violent literal meanings; "don't retreat, reload", "lock and load" and crosshairs (or bullseyes) have no non-violent literal meaning.

I'm not saying people should avoid anything that can POSSIBLY have a literally violent meaning; again, I know from experience that's simply not an option, particularly not in terms of a competitive contest. I am saying that they should exercise at least a LITTLE self restraint, a little common sense, and not use strongly violent imagery when they know there are plenty of whackjobs out there waiting to take them literally. If they did, maybe they wouldn't so often need to preemptively deny accusations of responsibility for those whackjobs, sometimes even without waiting to be accused. It's not always easy to exercise caution and restraint, but expecting it from public servants isn't (or shouldn't) be expecting too much. Once again, if you can find an example of me using the kind of violently imagery I've so long condemned I'll own up to it, take my lumps and apologize if only to clarify that violence is never justified except in proportionate defence to violence, but I'm still waiting for such an example to substantiate charges of my hypocrisy.
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London Riots: American Far Right Pundits Indulge in the Blood Libel of Which They Accuse Others. - 16/08/2011 05:03:40 PM 795 Views
Joel, stop posting these threads. - 16/08/2011 05:50:15 PM 328 Views
Agree. *NM* - 16/08/2011 06:01:09 PM 179 Views
That's the plan. - 16/08/2011 06:09:53 PM 265 Views
Re: That's the plan. - 16/08/2011 06:27:24 PM 215 Views
It can only be called a plan if you ever, honestly plan on following through with it. - 16/08/2011 06:52:32 PM 249 Views
Oh, I fully intend to follow through with it. - 16/08/2011 06:58:05 PM 253 Views
Prove it then. *NM* - 16/08/2011 07:00:17 PM 167 Views
Time will tell, eh? - 16/08/2011 07:03:59 PM 192 Views
Posting more political threads then anyone else on the board is not 'a few slips' *NM* - 16/08/2011 07:28:14 PM 167 Views
Well, technically ... - 16/08/2011 07:55:48 PM 239 Views
Actually what's sad is I just counted them - 16/08/2011 09:05:31 PM 208 Views
Today is a new day. - 16/08/2011 07:56:48 PM 201 Views
so are you really to dumb to actually understand what they are saying? - 16/08/2011 05:53:35 PM 270 Views
I understood them perfectly, thanks. - 16/08/2011 06:16:31 PM 222 Views
so you are not stupid just disingenuous? *NM* - 16/08/2011 06:17:50 PM 198 Views
Good lord. Why do you give people like this the time of day? - 16/08/2011 06:00:50 PM 257 Views
good lord why buy into Joel's BS? - 16/08/2011 06:19:38 PM 229 Views
Because they have 60 of the 435 seats in the US House. (EDIT) - 16/08/2011 06:27:21 PM 220 Views
You know, you lost all credit with this statement. - 16/08/2011 07:37:31 PM 203 Views
Read S&Ps statement. - 16/08/2011 07:53:17 PM 288 Views
Even your quotes in this post ought to make it clear that it was because of... - 16/08/2011 08:26:13 PM 191 Views
I haven't edited anyone but myself. - 16/08/2011 08:55:14 PM 203 Views
don't you live in norway now? *NM* - 16/08/2011 08:18:56 PM 207 Views
Yes? - 16/08/2011 08:36:02 PM 220 Views
ah - 16/08/2011 08:58:15 PM 272 Views
Oh for fuck's sake... - 16/08/2011 09:11:22 PM 214 Views
Agreed - 16/08/2011 08:00:04 PM 228 Views
You seem kinda hypocritical when complaining about people doing what you do all the time - 16/08/2011 06:25:50 PM 232 Views
The only people on the right whom I've called terrorists are terrorists. - 16/08/2011 06:40:48 PM 242 Views
Joel, do you really not believe you use inflammatory rhetoric? *NM* - 16/08/2011 07:26:37 PM 178 Views
Emotional, yes, but I try hard to avoid anything that could even LOOSELY SUGGEST violence. - 16/08/2011 07:36:36 PM 227 Views
Well try harder, or at least stop complaining about other people doing what you do non-stop - 16/08/2011 08:13:05 PM 211 Views
I called for a number of people to be put in padded rooms. - 16/08/2011 08:33:38 PM 230 Views
All linking accomplishes is feeding the Troll. - 16/08/2011 06:50:43 PM 234 Views
Fair point; I've argued much the same in the past. - 16/08/2011 06:56:45 PM 292 Views
glad to see you agre with Joels made up BS *NM* - 16/08/2011 07:17:18 PM 196 Views
It may be overstated, but it certainly isn't made up. - 16/08/2011 07:35:09 PM 200 Views
his statement that they are accusing Obama of causing the riots is BS and he has admitted it - 16/08/2011 07:46:46 PM 248 Views
Happy now? - 16/08/2011 08:17:13 PM 201 Views