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If that's the case it's hard to say they overreacted. Joel Send a noteboard - 10/08/2011 01:22:45 AM
This is the UK, not the USA. Guns are illegal, it was a specific operation from a specific task force who had specific intelligence that a gun was involved. Else they wouldn't have been there.

It remains to be seen what the full facts are, but if he had a gun, and so far everything points to it, then he gave up his right to be treated as a normal citizen the minute he got one, and he opened himself up to a world in which he can get shot. A police officers duty should always be to protect himself and the general public, not to wait for the guy with the gun to do something.

To bring this into perspective, just over 6000 police officers in the UK are licenced to carry guns. This is in 2007-8, the last year i can get figures for. Operations with guns were authorised just over 21,000 times, that's right they need to be signe doff and authorised. In 2007-8, of those 21,000 operations, a conventional firearm was discharged, how many times?...7...just 7. How many people died?...0...none.

In the last 13 years, only 4 people have been shot dead by the police that I know of, and this is the first in 4 years. So anyone out there who is trying to portray the police as murderers, or think they fired lightly or anything else. Really, this is the UK, we take this shit seriously, we investigate it seriously, and we learn from EVERY death.

However, all the facts I have on this case are second hand, I've never lived in Britain so I can only compare it to situations with which I am familiar and, perhaps most importantly, everything I've said in this thread has only gotten me in trouble, so it's time to cut my losses. When you're in a hole, stop digging, and all that. :<img class=' />
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London snoopcester - 08/08/2011 12:08:35 PM 1828 Views
i freaked out when i heard about that Yunalesca - 08/08/2011 02:09:10 PM 1064 Views
Re: i freaked out when i heard about that snoopcester - 08/08/2011 02:47:16 PM 907 Views
It's pretty scary. Rebekah - 08/08/2011 02:19:51 PM 932 Views
I found it somewhat last night, having a sister who lives in Brixton snoopcester - 08/08/2011 02:50:57 PM 952 Views
I'm sure the media will manage to blame the police somehow Wibble - 08/08/2011 03:11:40 PM 843 Views
I've been following the story. Spriteling - 08/08/2011 03:26:51 PM 908 Views
I cannot quite make out what is going on Camilla - 08/08/2011 03:27:57 PM 1061 Views
No, that's about it as far as we know Wibble - 08/08/2011 03:40:15 PM 1085 Views
Re: I cannot quite make out what is going on snoopcester - 08/08/2011 03:40:21 PM 951 Views
Continue to use live ammunition until no one is protesting. *NM* Tom - 08/08/2011 03:53:50 PM 503 Views
Sounds good to me *NM* Wibble - 08/08/2011 04:06:04 PM 484 Views
Okay, bored of these riots now, time for the police to follow 10CCs example... Wibble - 08/08/2011 09:28:36 PM 984 Views
Given what has been reported snoopcester - 08/08/2011 04:07:13 PM 1014 Views
So, did the original suspect have a gun/fire bullets? beetnemesis - 09/08/2011 04:19:16 PM 991 Views
Had a gun, didn't fire snoopcester - 09/08/2011 06:51:54 PM 919 Views
Not actually true Wibble - 09/08/2011 07:01:33 PM 897 Views
Seems it isn't exactly but I'm not sure your reply is 100% true either snoopcester - 09/08/2011 07:27:00 PM 993 Views
Now that's a good point Wibble - 09/08/2011 07:45:26 PM 960 Views
I think with both they're putting disclaimers in snoopcester - 09/08/2011 08:56:17 PM 1002 Views
There's no evidence he didn't fire? Imagine that. Joel - 09/08/2011 11:22:05 PM 906 Views
He's saying the evidence available is inconclusive either way. Rebekah - 09/08/2011 11:37:06 PM 977 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 09/08/2011 11:56:16 PM 1019 Views
There are various proofs snoopcester - 10/08/2011 12:06:41 AM 912 Views
True, but if tests are inconclusive rather than merely incomplete those proofs may not be available. Joel - 10/08/2011 12:47:34 AM 942 Views
Bullshit Wibble - 10/08/2011 01:12:46 AM 844 Views
If that's the case it's hard to say they overreacted. Joel - 10/08/2011 01:22:45 AM 805 Views
I do see why it matters if he fired or not random thoughts - 10/08/2011 12:46:12 AM 859 Views
Again, I don't know the British standard, so I can only guess how it works. Joel - 10/08/2011 12:54:20 AM 962 Views
Though if he had a gun, in a sock, not drawn... beetnemesis - 10/08/2011 01:50:05 AM 922 Views
sadly the rioters didn't wait for facts random thoughts - 10/08/2011 02:56:46 AM 1046 Views
They've announced that the "unknown" gun was never fired beetnemesis - 10/08/2011 02:04:26 PM 934 Views
So? Are the police supposed to let him get the first shot? *NM* random thoughts - 10/08/2011 03:15:59 PM 507 Views
...said Gaddafi. *NM* Tim - 10/08/2011 12:11:31 AM 479 Views
And?... *NM* Wibble - 10/08/2011 12:17:51 AM 459 Views
And we just went to war with him because he was shooting people in the street. Tim - 10/08/2011 09:56:07 AM 929 Views
Last time I checked, you guys have a vote. First past the post, sure, but it's still a vote. Tom - 10/08/2011 04:33:07 AM 889 Views
Is there any other country that has a death penalty for children caught stealing? *NM* Tim - 10/08/2011 10:02:56 AM 511 Views
Maybe not, but we can hope there is... *NM* Tom - 10/08/2011 02:04:38 PM 444 Views
You can hope there is. Tim - 10/08/2011 02:21:17 PM 903 Views
...you guys need a poster named Tam, and a sitcom, stat. *NM* beetnemesis - 10/08/2011 05:11:57 PM 497 Views
+1 Yunalesca - 10/08/2011 05:17:22 PM 905 Views
Wibble is called Tam (Scots) or Tom (English), and used to go by dragon_tam. Tim - 10/08/2011 05:27:16 PM 1012 Views
LMAO *NM* Aisha - 10/08/2011 06:22:11 PM 474 Views
If you want to talk statistics... Tom - 13/08/2011 08:26:39 PM 855 Views
So the death penalty is a deterrent for the crimes it doesn't apply to, but not for those it does? Tim - 14/08/2011 10:58:14 AM 1039 Views
No, that wasn't my point. Tom - 14/08/2011 09:39:14 PM 1009 Views
light yagami felt the same way Yunalesca - 14/08/2011 01:20:02 PM 1011 Views
Please speak English. *NM* Tom - 14/08/2011 09:39:46 PM 490 Views
They think they have a good reason for what they're doing snoopcester - 10/08/2011 11:48:52 AM 860 Views
If they react even more indignantly to a harsh crackdown, maybe they do. Tom - 10/08/2011 02:06:04 PM 783 Views
Oh? snoopcester - 10/08/2011 04:05:55 PM 970 Views
This is the first I've heard of it; here's hoping and praying the damage is restricted to property Joel - 08/08/2011 06:59:06 PM 952 Views
I am sure dart_board - 09/08/2011 06:34:40 PM 955 Views
I don't recall mentioning any of those groups in connection with this. Joel - 09/08/2011 07:29:01 PM 862 Views
You will. *NM* dart_board - 10/08/2011 12:14:22 AM 475 Views
I've had plenty of opportunites and still didn't, even when rt practically teed one up for me. Joel - 10/08/2011 12:25:09 AM 896 Views
This is utterly awful. Rebekah - 08/08/2011 09:41:46 PM 1040 Views
Yeah - it has massively spread today. Just saw footage of youths looting a Sainburys in Birmingham snoopcester - 08/08/2011 09:52:32 PM 955 Views
And if they had got the army out Wibble - 08/08/2011 09:57:40 PM 928 Views
That's true. Rebekah - 08/08/2011 10:03:03 PM 934 Views
pfft Yunalesca - 08/08/2011 10:23:37 PM 910 Views
I think the vast majority of people would be just fine with it snoopcester - 08/08/2011 10:08:34 PM 1069 Views
They call it "martial law" for a reason. Joel - 09/08/2011 02:30:40 AM 904 Views
Might work in the US snoopcester - 09/08/2011 02:13:50 PM 953 Views
When most of the looters are kids I can see how that would be problematic. Joel - 09/08/2011 05:18:09 PM 932 Views
Joel I don't believe any looters were shot in the Rodney King riots random thoughts - 09/08/2011 05:41:44 PM 897 Views
Police were, from what I understand, hard to find during those riots. Joel - 09/08/2011 05:51:11 PM 899 Views
I am just questioning the logic of the debate taking place here random thoughts - 09/08/2011 06:33:11 PM 848 Views
Your notoriously faulty memory is by far the lesser problem here. Joel - 09/08/2011 07:14:07 PM 1160 Views
That article supports my argument random thoughts - 09/08/2011 08:55:15 PM 817 Views
OK I blame the site for this random double post. I hit submit once. random thoughts - 09/08/2011 08:55:17 PM 876 Views
I can't really argue with anything you've said here, so I won't try. Joel - 09/08/2011 11:11:17 PM 1004 Views
so now you are comparing the rioters to the Tea Party? I guess dartboard was almost right random thoughts - 10/08/2011 12:51:46 AM 929 Views
I'm comparing alienation to alienation and noting that it's pervasive. Joel - 10/08/2011 01:19:49 AM 996 Views
and I am saying you have no idea who the tea party is random thoughts - 10/08/2011 03:06:15 AM 889 Views
I guess I should've used the Progressive Caucus instead. Joel - 10/08/2011 04:25:30 PM 961 Views
Seriously, is it mostly kids? nossy - 08/08/2011 10:08:00 PM 844 Views
They don't have parents Wibble - 08/08/2011 10:10:07 PM 1028 Views
A hell of a lot seem to be snoopcester - 08/08/2011 10:12:21 PM 918 Views
I'd be tempted to go down there with a cattle prod. nossy - 08/08/2011 10:14:14 PM 978 Views
I think there might be too many of them snoopcester - 08/08/2011 10:23:05 PM 908 Views
If that link still isn't working, try here snoopcester - 08/08/2011 10:29:19 PM 849 Views
I know that if I had ever participated in anything like that, my mother would have kicked my ass. Avendesora - 09/08/2011 08:48:09 PM 1027 Views
its getting absolutely mental Yunalesca - 08/08/2011 10:21:32 PM 908 Views
Congratulations Ken Livingstone Wibble - 08/08/2011 11:44:29 PM 945 Views
Agree on the first part snoopcester - 09/08/2011 01:05:01 PM 948 Views
Um... This is the first I've read / heard about it Two Wongs - 09/08/2011 03:43:02 AM 871 Views
Looks a bit like a post-apocalyptic sci-fi movie Sports_Gambler - 09/08/2011 06:38:59 AM 941 Views
Apparently that's a surprisingly common error. Joel - 09/08/2011 12:34:30 PM 962 Views
Horrible Mark - 09/08/2011 11:18:21 AM 828 Views
Yes snoopcester - 09/08/2011 12:55:00 PM 1002 Views
Tumblr blog where ppl are submitting pictures of the looters Two Wongs - 09/08/2011 12:49:39 PM 866 Views
People have set up the same thing on Facebook and flickr as well snoopcester - 09/08/2011 01:23:42 PM 928 Views
... Two Wongs - 09/08/2011 04:12:55 PM 908 Views
Before and after pictures of buildings/businesses from BBC Fox and Ravens - 09/08/2011 02:12:24 PM 1047 Views
Holy crap, what is wrong with those people?? ironclad - 09/08/2011 02:23:39 PM 869 Views
how does 'they are brainless idiots' grab you? *NM* Yunalesca - 09/08/2011 05:03:51 PM 405 Views
What's with that last picture set? Nate - 09/08/2011 04:39:53 PM 935 Views
Never figured the Iranian government for having much of a sense of hunour, snoopcester - 09/08/2011 02:26:01 PM 975 Views
The hypocricy there is mind-boggling. *NM* Macharius - 09/08/2011 05:03:28 PM 432 Views
I imagine that's the point. Nate - 09/08/2011 05:33:09 PM 1052 Views
That was my take on it as well snoopcester - 09/08/2011 07:03:51 PM 966 Views
Re: That was my take on it as well Camilla - 11/08/2011 11:32:12 AM 1041 Views
*sprays water over laptop screen* Yunalesca - 09/08/2011 05:07:07 PM 920 Views
lol wow...that was a bit much *NM* Aisha - 09/08/2011 05:26:33 PM 409 Views
To be fair Sidious - 09/08/2011 06:24:58 PM 1166 Views
You make a fair point. snoopcester - 09/08/2011 07:05:26 PM 841 Views
Send in the army! Two Wongs - 09/08/2011 11:37:15 PM 864 Views
That is just lovely. *NM* Camilla - 11/08/2011 11:27:34 AM 431 Views
Remember you're a womble! Zeeb - 09/08/2011 06:49:52 PM 921 Views
Yes snoopcester - 09/08/2011 07:09:35 PM 950 Views
Re: Yes Zeeb - 09/08/2011 07:32:18 PM 943 Views
i can see the smoke from the sony factory fire out of my bedroom window Yunalesca - 09/08/2011 07:21:08 PM 948 Views
This is all quite... surreal. It's hard to believe. Avendesora - 09/08/2011 08:54:57 PM 866 Views
The surreal thing is London is still full of tourists who seem to not have a care in the world snoopcester - 09/08/2011 09:03:11 PM 870 Views
Well, it's not really anti-foreigner sentiment, is it? beetnemesis - 10/08/2011 01:57:55 AM 961 Views
Not yet but then it isn't pro either snoopcester - 10/08/2011 10:25:13 AM 937 Views
She has a grandson to meet for the first time, then she's off traveling with a friend. Avendesora - 10/08/2011 03:27:37 AM 936 Views
Well to clarify, it isn't that I think it is very unsafe just not a good time to go somewhere snoopcester - 10/08/2011 10:19:03 AM 848 Views
I'm flying to the midlands tomorrow. Helene - 10/08/2011 07:35:28 AM 905 Views
It seems to be only happening in the evenings and at night. Tim - 10/08/2011 10:59:55 AM 814 Views
I have been keeping an eye on it; we have friends in Highbury Druid - 10/08/2011 05:07:16 AM 1014 Views
Re: I have been keeping an eye on it; we have friends in Highbury snoopcester - 10/08/2011 10:47:46 AM 1007 Views
Oi!!! Druid - 11/08/2011 04:40:04 AM 1080 Views
Aussie, Aussie? snoopcester - 11/08/2011 11:50:47 AM 990 Views
I saw Nick Griffin's twitter last night Stephen - 10/08/2011 12:23:01 PM 871 Views
Yeah, I saw he had been. He's a great little scum bag snoopcester - 10/08/2011 12:47:34 PM 971 Views
*dual facepalm* Yunalesca - 10/08/2011 02:45:03 PM 922 Views
Effing EDL snoopcester - 10/08/2011 09:28:41 PM 977 Views
I liked this blog Camilla - 11/08/2011 11:29:42 AM 880 Views
Quite good snoopcester - 12/08/2011 02:57:35 PM 958 Views
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